There was some elements lacking in my general proposal. I decided to make another that addressed concerns raised in replies.
General Purpose
The Ecency work is designed to be a drop in replacement for the current Proof of Brain interface. The features that I outlined in this post are already in the Ecency website. Its software called ecency-vision is what I am modifying. So, if modify the Ecency-vision software to use Hive Engine and adapt it to also use POB, we would an Ecency software with handling of these three liquid tokens: Hive, HBD, and POB.
I am uploading it to https://github.com/steemfiles/ecency-vision/tree/POB-vision.
I think I made the install instructions easier to understand. Anyone who is inclined can download and try it on a machine with at least 200 GB of free space.
My Qualifications
I am a computer programmer. You can go back into the steemit archives with me talking with @holger80 using his beem project. Which was Python3 on Steem and then Hive. I created a digital store for selling file downloads. I couldn't justify maintenance for the lack of sales on said store. So I shut it down. The store was at www.steemfiles.com.
I later became inspired by @logiczombie's post about how ban lists have gotten out of hand on Hive, and there is a kind of cancel culture right here in Hive. I decided to make a limited browser for posts that would open any content, disregarding ban lists. Something of a MVP which would take market share away and perhaps if there was enough interest, it could become popular. I was unable to get condenser to work on my VPS. So I wrote this front-end from scratch. Although it's not really complete. It's at https://www.steemfiles.com. It's a one man show: me. Later I found that PeakD was allowing users to disable ban lists. Though it lost its original purpose, I often go back to it for I can view multi-blockchains, view my exact vote rather than whether I voted and other neat things which Ecency, and PeakD don't do. You see, Steemfiles lacks the things that these sites already have, because I can use these sites already, but it has things that other sites don't have.
Steemfiles has features I appreciate but it is rather primitive. If there is a front-end that does it well, Steemfiles probably doesn't have that feature.
I also have an honors B.Sc. degree in mathematics and that can be surprisingly useful. So if anyone asks me if I "believe in science", I tell them I am a priest.
Ecency-vision Post Lists
Ecency-vision shows dollar amounts, but these dollar amounts only include the value from Hive assets, so they are missing a lot when a post item has been awarded 100 POB. Putting the mouse over the item displays the amount that is going to curators and the amount going to authors, as well as an asset breakdown for pending posts. The last asset breakdown does not include POB or other Hive Engine tokens.
Ecency-Vision Vote Lists
Vote lists can be left as is but they should include Hive-Engine token values.
Ecency-vision Vote Slider
The voting slider is in dollars. This undervalues votes because it excludes the Hive engine tokens.
Ecency-vision Wallet
The New Ecency Wallet should report HBD, Hive, Hive Power, and POB rewards and transfers. You should be able to send money within the wallet and power up and power down both Hive and POB.
Ecency-vision Promotions
Promotions on this platform would be done by somehow consuming POB. I don't want to say whether it is burning or sending to @pob-fund. I think it should be one of these. I leave to be decided later.
Navigation POB Focused
When opening the default page, it should open up to Proof of Brain - Promoted Posts. Maybe links for onboarding for Proof of Brain or coming over from say LEO. Clicking New should jump you to the New of the Proof of Brain Community if that's where you are already.
My Negotiating Position
I'm no desperate guy. If you don't want me to do this, or you don't want me paid this amount, I can go on and do only curation. I'm averaging over 200 POB/day just using the platform. I think I like curating better than coding. So, I should really ask for at least a little more than that. I wish to put 4 hours a day into programming and the other 4 into curation.
POB Benefit
The larger displayed rewards will attract other Hive users and new users to this front-end, even if they are not in the POB community. They may be attracted to this front-end even over Ecency. We can accept POB tokens to promote content. Ah ha a use case.
Vote this up with any positive vote (1%, 0.01%) if you want this proposal to go forward for 20 more working days.
Just to be clear on this. You have placed two separate comments -- one for a "Yes" vote (this one), and another for a "No" vote.
Votes to the post don't matter, only votes to those two comments. And, amount of the vote doesn't matter (so it is not stake-weighted, just fueled by engagement -- all votes are equal).
Is this correct?
PS: You might edit the "No" comment to put the word "not" in bold, just to make it more clear.
Yes, the vote % doesn't matter. It's boolean. True or False. I guess, you can abstain by voting neither or voting both. How others decide can be calculated later from stake or vote number. It looks like this proposal is winning either way so far. The last time I tried this kind of thing, with the self-voting question, hardly anyone voted on either the yes or no. I'm hoping people will vote more this time.
To be clear:
@trosparadox, Is this a vote to pay 150 POB per day for 20 days?
@leprechaun, when should the 3000 POB be paid?
Should it be done in increments like @calumam suggested?
I suggest weekly increments.
@leprechaun, I am for this if the community supports it. I think having the new front end with all the features it brings would be awesome. I know the front end takes support over time and will need minor upgrades over time as well. Hive-Engine gives us that support but we need to have 5000 BEE staked or delegated from the community. We may need to start buying BEE just to be able to have two options or even just have two versions running. What would you need to continue to manage the front-end into the future? I do also like that you are very invested at this point and stand to earn very well by adding a lot of value to your investment.
Also, just wanted to make sure you know that currently posts can be promoted with POB and it is burned.
P.S.
I like this way of making proposals to the community. We can basically do it like Archon governance but just do it manually for now.
I have yet to see a robust example of decentralized governance in terms of evaluating and funding proposals.
My impression of the Hive DHF has been that it is sub-optimal because it follows a "propose, decide, fund, execute" paradigm that is based on an inherently centralized way of doing things. I have my own thoughts about how to improve DHF decision-making, funding, and oversight -- I will be posting about that sometime soon (hopefully within the next couple weeks -- however, I've said that before, and it was more than 2 weeks ago).
I am not familiar with Archon governance -- but would like to know more.
In any event, my 'vote' in this instance is not a carte blanche vote for the proposal as-written, but rather a generic vote in support of the work @leprechaun has started (an open-source extension of the ecency front-end), in support of the community helping to fund the work (e.g. via @pob-fund), and in support of @leprechaun playing a significant role in overseeing (or doing) the work.
With that said, if H-E provides support (or is willing to provide support), that warrants some serious consideration as well. My guess is that the H-E support would be somewhat limited. However, if the H-E support can be synergistically leveraged with some of what @leprechaun is trying to accomplish, that would be great.
In summary, my vote is essentially to say "Yes" to front-end upgrades, "Yes" to spending something on the order of 3,000 POB for the first iteration of those upgrades, and "Yes" to @leprechaun taking a lead role in that, but all subject to direct oversight by @proofofbrainio (or your designee).
In other words, you (@proofofbrainio) should feel free (but not obligated) to move forward, and to do so only to the extent that you are comfortable with the scope of work, the compensation level, any stated milestones and deliverables, etc.
I think this is poor execution of a poll and is inherently biased. It might be good for finding out an interested party but there is a lack of visibility for an uninterested party. @phusionphil expressed distaste for the method and expressed his protest to this idea leprecon said that the downvote could be confused for a vote in favor which showcases not only the flaws in the system but his obvious bias and willingness to skew something that's been made clear so that it ends in his favor. It's difficult to even make sense of the poll and it's my belief that the proposal is done in this confusing manner to make it difficult to disagree. I am also completely against this initiative largely due to how deceptive this practice is. As soon as someone upvotes the pro side with many of the other comments being upvoted there is an obvious differential regarding the visibility of both options.
Yeah and paying someone you disagree with is the dumbest idea I have ever heard, that's why I downvoted, he wants to milk the rewards pool for his poll.
If this behavior keeps up, without a good proof of concept, I'm just going to downvote 100% of leprechauns posts because he self votes
@proofofbrainio Are you really going to throw away 3000 PoB to someone whose supposed qualifications is a failed project that had to be shut down due to lack of interest? Someone who also identifies themself as s 'priest' of science as if that's some kind of boon. The only thing this poll can show is who is interested not an indicators of who is against the project. Most people who don't like the idea probably didn't even make it to the comments to know the proposal works like this. There are so many things wrong with the logic of the proposal. For example the point about how he needs to get more than his curation rewards. Curation is still based on the way voting power works so having less time to curate isn't going to have a 1 to 1 ratio in loss of profits. Curation has diminishing returns on time invested. A person who is curating for 4 hours a day like they propose they are should still be able to fully optimize their rewards
Another flaw I noticed in this poll is that someone I know has used two different accounts to upvote this proposal so it isn't even an indication of exactly the number of people who are in favor of the project due to people having access to additional accounts. Internet historian made a great video on the flaws of polls with many good real world examples that is very entertaining and educational
Hi, @proofofbrainio
So... I didn’t know where I could talk to you directly, and on the recommendation of @calumam I’m writing in this last comment you made to ask you: Is there still a possibility to delegate more HIVE POWER to get more POB POWER?
I'm interested in increasing my POB POWER to focus more intensively on the POB community.
No, we are no longer accepting HP for PP. We could consider accepting some more at maybe 2:1 but we haven't decided to that.
done
i voted but my vote not has value , i am sorry my pob power is zero that's why.
Ok, I am a believer. I hope your proposal gets funded. Also, thank you very much for the clarification on your work. The project manager within me got teary-eyed. Like Mr. Trostparadox stated, it's better to have someone vested in the project performing the work.
Please vote the yes comment as well if you haven't already.
I voted yes!
Voted yes! (with upvote on this comment)
Giving this post a full upvote to increase visibility -- and because I fully support @leprechaun in this endeavor.
A custom and customizable front-end for proofofbrain.io is desperately needed. And, I would much rather have it done by someone with a vested interest in the tribe (like @leprechaun).
Please vote the yes comment as well if you haven't already.
Fully agree. I also think a shift towards a more "digital blue" for the UI and logo would do better.
Please vote the yes comment as well if you haven't already.
Done.
Please vote the yes comment as well if you haven't already.
Will really like to see a better UI and the addition of hive engine token values. I hope the proposal gets funded
Vote the yes comment to fund.
Done
Competition is good, but I think we would do better by designing from the point of view of what would look most attractive and interesting to complete outsiders not yet familiar with Hive. Despite its high potential, Hive (and Steem before it) has been mostly stagnant with regards to user growth, retention and network effect. The only exceptions being driven by the overall crypto market and price movements attracting people rather than the product itself.
So I think we ought to think a bit different than simply trying to be more attractive to Hive users than Peakd, Ecency, etc (which in the grand scheme of things are almost irrelevantly small userbases anyways). With regards to the values displayed, my preference would be to 1. Display the POB token value of a post as it is on proofofbrain.io, and then also include the total current USD value of all tokens (HIVE, HBD, and all HE tokens) pending payout in the dropdown/mouseover. Alaternatively, it could show the USD value of all tokens combined next to the upvotes, and then the dropdown gives a breakdown of the different tokens making up that value sorted from largest to smallest.
Ecency does this kind of thing. It shows the USD value of Hive Dollars/HP but excludes the value of HE tokens. It's a natural thing to show the breakdown of the HE tokens as part of this change but I am thinking with the number of kinds of HE tokens, maybe it should only have HP, HBD, Hive and POB displayed in the mouse over.
As you support this, please vote the yes comment as well if you haven't already.
Already voted yes now :)
Maybe only show the top X most valuable tokens for that post or comment then. With a tiny clickable link to see what "other" tokens are making up the total?
Something like:
Post value $27.08
$13 : 20 POB
$8 : 8 HBD
$8 : 12 HIVE Power
$3.5 : 5 LEO
$0.7 (other tokens).
Where "other tokens" is clickable and opens a page with the full breakdown where you can also reach those Tribes / Communities to learn more about them? Seems like a fine way for new communities with their own tokens to also be able to market themselves.
That would be amazing, @fredrikaa!
This is a nice proposal,let's see how it goes...
As you support this, please vote the yes comment as well if you haven't already.
"Yes"
I am in favour of this proposal.
I'll say one thing, it says a lot about the people who don't vote this post.
The proposal is great, thanks for laying out some more specifics and answering the questions from the previous post in more detail.
Sorry I'm illiterate with tech. Are we talking about getting rid of PoB tokens and replacing with PoB points like ecency?
If you didn't understand, there is something wrong about the way I expressed the proposal. I think calling it "POB coin" caused confusion. I've just fixed that part in the main article.
No, I'm not talking about getting rid of POB. There is nothing special about Ecency points. We could use any other currency for promotion on a web site. Steemit uses Steem. Hive.blog uses Hive. We can use POB.
Not you my friend, its me. I think I understand the proposal is for a new front end?
I like ecency. Remember that 85% of people with a mobile phone have access to the internet, it is the most used devise to access the internet.
Mobile friendly versions always work well.
Using a Jurrasic Park analogy, It's a new front end based on the DNA of Ecency. Ecency has mobile and desktop clients. They are part of the package. That means the new front end will be Android apps and IOS if @ecency already is on iOS.
Yeah ecency is great, one of my favourite front ends, with PoB I can't upload images using the front end.
Well I'm a newbie here, so I'm only watching and learning, and I'm learning a lot. I'm asking myself why I wasn't seeing your posts, but I discover that I wasn't following you, shame on me.
Thanks for this kind of posts, they are very informative, and it's nice to know your other works. I'm a developer too, a newbie, and it's nice to see a project like this happening. I hope that all keep's going well!
So do you know Typescript?
A little, I'm learning bit by bit. I'm focusing more in Javascript now, because I'm giving classes in a social project about programming, and the language that people choose is Javascript, but I understand code and such. It's nice to see a project using Typescript.
I really like that you are adapting Ecency for POB and
I gladly give you my upvotes in support. !PIZZA
@leprechaun! I sent you a slice of $PIZZA on behalf of @hivecoffee.
Learn more about $PIZZA Token at hive.pizza
Please up vote the 'yes' comment below.
Vote this up with any positive vote (1%, 0.01%) if you do not want this proposal to go forward for 20 more working days.
I am not going to give you POB for the vote because you ignored my inquiry into the qualifications you have for this. I do not support it and I downvoted the yes response because this is not a valuable service I would benefit from.
up-vote the no response. Your flag might be counted as a yes.
You missed the paragraph with the title "My Qualifications."
If i can downvote on your platform, I will start upvoting when I see a proof of concept, I like testing things out, tag me if you want a beta tester who will be very honest, and has 6 years on steem/hive now.
I have a VERY negative view of the liquidity on these alternative front ends, So when you have a proof of concept, let me know so I can actually see this and try it before I decide if I want to pay you.
In the world I live in, proof of concept comes before the loan, and this far more valuable than a loan to give you decentralized autonomous currency.
Adapt Ecency for POB, I really think it's a great idea, I support.
I am totally in favor as I mentioned in another post
The interface of Ecency is great and having it here at POB would be of great help and would improve too much for all of us.
For me the value that you ask for is in agreement.
Well as for me i see this proposal as a wonderful one and i totally support it..@leprechaun
Please vote the yes comment as well if you haven't already.
It's a one man show: me. Later I found that PeakD was allowing users to disable ban lists. Though it lost its original purpose, I often go back to it for I can view multi-blockchains, view my exact vote rather than whether I voted and other neat things which Ecency, and PeakD don't do. You see, Steemfiles lacks the things that these sites already have, because I can use these sites already, but it has things that other sites don't have.
Quoting is done with a greater sign at the beginning of every line. Did you forget to write your reply?
just highlighting your genius.
Yes.
This would be awesome for POB.
Yes, Full upvote from me, the interface such as the bar and the popup window of voters are some of the coolest aspect I enjoy over on ecency.
The idea is to vote the yes comment by myself at the bottom at any % to indicate a full yes.
voted :)