I've been thinking about cars which is nothing new really, I'm a car guy. I like fast cars that handle well and ones that have sleek curves and could list a few I'd like to own but I'm a pickup truck guy at heart, four wheel drives, and whilst I've had a lot of very nice cars, it's the four wheel drives and pickups which have brought me the most enjoyment; they take me where I want to go, on or off road, and have the load-carrying capacity I need. I can't recall a time in which I didn't have a four wheel drive, even when I had some of those sporty European two door cars which I enjoyed so much.
Lately, I've been thinking about cars but not four wheel drives or high-performance sports cars...I've been thinking about something completely different.
Plug in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV)
A little while ago, something caused me to think about a potential new vehicle; don't worry, I'm not getting rid of my beastly-awesome Landcruiser, just one of my other ones. I can name three I'd be happy to own and a couple others that would probably be quite suitable also however, these days, one must take into consideration a little more than style, comfort, suitability and price...with hybrid vehicles and EV's popping up like mushrooms one needs to consider that option also, as well as everything else.
A vehicle caught my eye a little while ago, not a Tesla, I hate them, and it's not quite what I'd expected.
The Volvo XC60 Recharge
This is a plug in hybrid electric vehicle meaning it has a traditional combustion engine that powers the front wheels and an electric motor that powers the rear.
It delivers 233kW/400Nm to the front wheels and 107kW/309Nm to the rear, so it's got plenty of power for when the loud pedal is pressed and it has a decent range, some 77km on pure electric and a total range of about 450km. Ok, reasonable range for city driving and good power output but what about recharging? That's not so good. The charge time is about 4-5 hours making it almost unsuitable for kerb-side recharging to full - it needs to be charged overnight. Hmm, ok, I think I could work with that.
The vehicle I looked at has all of the bells and whistles you'd expect in a top-of-the range specification and I think it looks the part - the style is...pragmatic is how I'd describe it. I mean, it's been designed with simple, but attractive, lines on the exterior and a fairly simple dashboard shape and configuration inside with excellent occupant room and comfort. It avoids the glitz and glamour of the other brands and focuses on the occupant-experience, and safety of course.
Anyway, that's about all I'll say about the car other than the fact that the price tag is pretty hot: $86,000, $73,000 and 101,000 for the top of the range in Australian dollars and excluding taxes and on-road costs. Yeah, it's pretty expensive.
Am I convinced
No, I don't think so to be honest, I need my vehicles to be able to handle the tasks I put them to.
The EV and PHEV technology is great, and I believe they have it worked out so that one isn't plagued by a myriad of technical problems and failures. The power is there, as is the travel-range in the city but outside of it the range and charging time let it down.
Here in Australia, there's a lot of distance between places; fairly standard for a big country/continent I guess...but in Australia, there is next to nothing in between each place. That means, when travelling the countryside, one needs to do long days behind the wheel at high speed, the limit of 110kp/h, get anywhere.
Here's some perspective, in the State of South Australia where I live it is just under 1,800 kilometres from Mount Gambier in the southeast, right near the Victorian border, to the Northern Territory border to the north. Also, once fifty kilometres past the capital of Adelaide there's not much at all for 1,200 kilometres other than a few map-dot service stations and the small town of Port Augusta, all the way to the NT border. That's a long way to travel.
Alice Springs in Northern Territory, the next largest town from the SA/NT border is another 300 kilometres north. The iconic, Ayres Rock, is near to Alice Springs right in the centre of Australia. OK, it's not near at all, it's 468 kilometres west of Alice Springs - that's near in Australian terms though. I think you get my point.
Basically, what I'm saying is it's a massive country with not a lot in it when one is between the major cities...and that means driving a PHEV may be problematic.
If I was driving to Alice Springs from Adelaide, 1,535 kilometres, I'd do so in two days, with a single night's stop-over. But with a PHEV that only does 450 kilometres in range then requires a full charge of between 2-5 hours it's not an option to do it in that time frame. Trust me on this, getting stuck out there in the middle of nowhere is dangerous, people die, so a lot of planning and more stops are required to get the PHEV from Adelaide to Alice Springs. That's shite.
The other consideration is charging points...sure, there's a couple here and there in Port Augusta and Alice Springs, but not in the outback and certainly not in outback motels which can be very rudimentary indeed...and who want's to wait at a service station for five hours? That's right, no one.
So yeah, I'm not sure PHEV or EV's are suited to that sort of thing just yet...so where's the value in the $101,000? Sure, it'll work in the city, but in a country like Australia, for one who travels like myself...they don't work so well. There's vast distances to cover and having to stop for five hours every 450km is...shite.
I guess it comes down to usage, a person's needs. For me, long distance travel is a reality, the next person may never leave the city. Either way, I think charging times, range and the charging infrastructure has a long way to go before Australians will jump on board in numbers.
I see a PHEV in my life, even a full EV, but it wouldn't negate the need for a four wheel drive like my diesel Landcruiser. This means I have to think really hard about what PHEV or EV I buy, if at all, and spending $101,000+ on it isn't something I'd be prepared to do considering it would be a town car only. That rules out the Volvo XC60 Recharge altogether at this stage, and many of the others.
I'm hoping technology advances quickly and these issues can be addressed although I think the manufacturers will focus on the bulk of the market, city-users and their particular needs, as that's where the money will be. The other niche markets will come later, a long, long way down the track.
I'm still out there researching and may make a decision this year. I am looking at a few options including the (ugly) Hyundai IONIQ 5, Lexus NX and Mazda CX-60 but I'm beginning to think that it's not the right time for a PHEV for me due to the distances here and that a straight (non-plug in) hybrid may be a little more workable.
Do you have any thoughts or experience on the matter? If you do, feel free to comment below and let me know.
Design and create your ideal life, don't live it by default; tomorrow isn't promised so be humble and kind - galenkp
The image was taken by me - Lamborghini Miura concept car, Bologna, Italy
The big appeal for me, is the hybrids which charge the battery when you brake.
All that kinetic energy normally lost to heat in the brake pads is such a waste.
Its like we've all been jumping around on sticks and somebody finally thought to add a spring.
Pogo cars! We need them.
I agree with you, straight hybrids are pretty good, my company vehicle is hybrid and I'm happy with it. There's also some really good options out there currently so yep, you're right.
It doesn't help you now but they are developing electrical vehicles with solar in the roof, that could be a good option for a sunny place like Australia.
My dad drives a Toyota Hybrid Auris, which runs on fuel, so you wouldn't need to plug it in, but also generates electricity while it drives and uses that too, meaning your fuel efficiency is very good. Maybe that is an option to not be dependent on having to charge?
I heard about that and am interested...but when is the big question...and what happens when it rains? Lol.
My company car is hybrid (combustion/electric) and it's good, also a Toyota. It's a good option.
Currently, my car is Hyundai, I call it my cargo donkey or the camel in the desert is a magnificent car, a renderer with fuel, 4 doors, the suspend is soft, good grip in the corners has a comfortable interior is white my favorite color and perfect for this climate. If I were to change, it would be for another of this same brand Galen.
Everyone needs a camel to ride around on right? 😂
🤣hahaha I do think Galen at least ride on one with 4 wheels like mine because of the resistance💪
A smoother ride on four wheels, but nowhere near as exotic.
This car is good, not so ugly, and has a good price in addition to its excellent reputation is a good roadrunner, not so exotic as the camel's movement🐫
You heading down to the market on a Wednesday afternoon...
Omg Something like that my car does from time to time when it starts to fail hahahaha just like that it runs like a camel.
And sometimes the viability where I live so deteriorates that the car does that's why I compare it to the camel
Sounds more than reasonable to me. I wouldn't buy a PHEV right now if I lived in Australia. It is fairly easy to use either here, but, I have a Toyota Highlander Hybrid, and I waiting in a holding pattern to trade for the electric. I still want more charging stations and the time it takes to be less. I know that is asking a lot, but, I am a patient woman.
I liked the Lexus and had a Hyundai, which was surprisingly awesome. I gave it to my daughter and she loves it.
Of course, I would rather have a Lambo... just saying.
You'd not have to, I'd chauffeur you around.
Yep, the Toyota Kluger here. Good vehicles. I'm not sure we have the EV though.
Also...I use Lambos for weight lifting purposes. (Taken in Bologna, Italy, at the Lamborghini factory.)
See? You really are nice. Did I call you cranky last week? I was so wrong! ;)
The Kluger is a hybrid electric vehicle, but they have an EV branded as the bZ model that are.
Toyota is releasing this year the second-generation Mirai hydrogen fuel-cell car, supported by the new Toyota Hydrogen Centre in Melbourne. I have no vision of those.
Lamborghini and Ferrari were popular cars to pick up at the factories when people were transferring back to the States from Europe. The government would ship one car home for you. Unfortunately, I didn't take advantage of a great deal. Weight lifting purposes. LOL
Off to bed! It might be vacation, but, it is 3 am. Goodnight!
Well, you might get some crank-factor as I'm rather intolerant of wanker-drivers but it would not be directed at you so I'd assume the crank would be acceptable.
Hydrogen was talked about in another comment on this post...Is it a potential option and possible a leap-frog to EV? Hmm, let's see.
Night swigs, may your dreams be crank-free.
I was doing the same thinking lately!
Together with the photovoltaic system, they put the car charging cabin at home.
I was thinking the exchange might be convenient for me ... I had to face all the considerations I made and not least the thought of the very high prices.
For now I have given up even if I believe that the electric car is the future but we still need to create support for these almost everywhere, in Italy there are still no recharging points in service stations, even if in cities I admit that they start to be.
But long-distance travel is still prohibitively expensive.
It's good tech, but in its infancy. It'll get much better of course but by then I'll be rockin' it like a Transformer!
The roll-out of charging points, and making it viable for everyone to use as needed, is an issue. If 10,000 want the same three charging points what then?
It'll be ok for me though, I'll transform into a Transformer and blast them all out the way.
Lol, of course you would, wouldn't we all?
Being able to blast your way through traffic... we can dream, it would be so schweet!
If I was a transformer, my name would be Optimus Knucklehead.
Eh eh then you will be theanquillo. Transformers, however, who knows how much they consume per kilometer eh eh!
Here in Italy I confess that in the cities the charging stations are being implemented, the problem remains with the long-distance stretches and in any case it must be said that there is still work to be done on the charging times as well.
Transformers run on Energon, from Cybertron.
The infrastructure will roll out and it'll work...I wonder though, will there be some other form of energy that simple leaps over EV and PHEV vehicles? Energon maybe?
Eh eh lo si, reperire l'energon immagino sia più costoso del diesel... la mia va a benzina e GPL, credo costino un pó meno 🤪
I don't know what this means, but I'll give it a... 😂
Eh eh yes, finding energon I guess is more expensive than diesel... mine runs on petrol and GPL, I think they cost a little less 🤪
I'm sorry I'm starting to find myself I think I'll start speaking only English eh eh!
I also like this PHEV technology the best of these new technologies. But, all these PHEVs have a very low range of electricity. I travel shorter distances than you do, but if I had a PHEV I would want it to be able to get me to and from work without charging, so I can charge overnight. But I need an electric range of at least 80-90 km, and no PHEV has that. They all have somewhere in the 60-70 range, mostly. A couple of years ago I was looking at a Hyundai Ioniq but now I see that they cancel the PHEV versions. Stupid decision.
Yeah, the Volvo I mention has (apparently) the greatest EV-only raange of 77km. I'd not be able to make that work. The 450km overall range is good, it'll mean I'd only have to charge every three days in the working week, but in general use, as discussed in this post, it's not workable.
I have a Hybrid company car getting 4.1L/100km overall which I think its good...That's a more viable option for me currently, (over PHEV).
Oh, I didn't know the Hyundai IONIQ 5 had the PHEV deleted.
I like the way the new tech is going but you'd need to hold on to the diesel/petrol incase of a grid down scenario which seems to be becoming more likely worldwide these days...Don't tell your Landcruiser that you're thinking of cheating on her though, I don't think she'd be well pleased 🤣
Yep, there's another issue altogether right? It always makes me laugh when they talk about the digital age when 13% of the world has no electricity and an even larger percentage have service drops (load shedding) like South Africa. Digital era...if you have, or can afford the power. Otherwise, you're fooked.
Her?
There's no thinly-veiled political correctness when it comes to the Landcruiser...No need to meet some gender balance to pacify sensitive people...The Landcruiser is red-hot blooded male. Big-dog ain't no girl. Having said that, I had an Audi A5 coupe I called Monica (Bellucci)...Oh those curves.
Hahahah "LIKE #WTBF EMMA!" 🤣 My apologies for getting that one totally screwed up.
Monica is a great name for a car.
I wish Monica the car had Monica Bellucci the woman in the passenger seat...alas, it was never to be. I sold the car in disgust.
Same thoughts here. I am travelling long distances and in remote areas. Even if I see petrol stations, most of them don't have charging options. I travelled with former colleagues in The Netherlands (where it"s full of charging stations). They were pushed by their company to get an electric car. Sometimes we had to charge twice on 1 route. Waiting for 1,5 hour. Waste of time and quite annoying if you ask me.
And being stuck in the Outback, I know how that feels. Waiting for hours in 45 degrees. You need to take enough water with you as well.
And if they did, would you want, or be able to, sit there for five hours whilst charging? Maybe, but maybe not.
And there you go...there's the answer.
Yep, it's lack of water (and leaving one's vehicle) that kills people.
We're definitely on the same page here. I like the technology, the concept and all, but there's a long way to go. I'm sure when Henry Ford first released the Model A in 1903/4 it was touted as cutting edge...some probably even wondered where it would all lead...Well, we know the answer now, 120 years later...It leads to where we are...So, it makes sense to think advancements will continue from here...I'm certain of it.
You only need to get enough charge to make it to the next charging point, though. :P
Pity if there's an out of order sign when you arrive, though. So really, you need to charge enough to get the next charging point, and the one after that, or "the next charging point, and back, again".
Yeah, and you'd be shit out of luck if it was 460km away.
I don't know about the car but I understand everything you have said in the post.
Not every car fits into every environment, I plan to own a big farm someday and a huge truck is what I need when the time comes and not a fancy car.
You have listed the demerits of these
electric cars on your route and that's a good thing. A lot of people don't put these things into consideration and they end up getting into issues thinking they satisfied their craving.
I think people have been programmed to some degree to simply choose what looks good or is marketed well. Marketers play on people's insecurity which is why the car commercials all indicate how much better life will be if a person buys their car. Of course, we know that's not the case right?
Choosing a vehicle based on needs and budget is a better way to go.
Totally agree that this newer technology doesn't make sense for anyone who doesn't live their life almost entirely in a city here in Australia. Our distances are just too far. I am curiously watching to see what happens over the coming years with this tech. I wonder what it will look like 5 years from now? Maybe something totally new and different will show up that suits us much better in Australia.
!ALIVE
You Are Alive so I just staked 0.1 $ALIVE(1/10)@galenkp! to your account on behalf of @consciouscat.
The tip has been paid for by the We Are Alive Tribe
through the earnings on @alive.chat, feel free to swing by our daily chat any time you want.
It's just not there yet right?
I agree with the watch and wait approach. Also, as I just commented to someone else, I wonder if something completely different that renders EV and PHEV redundant comes along? I'm not saying it will, but Doc had some pretty good ideas right?
!LOL
Brad (@new.things) has been wondering the same thing.
We're not in a hurry to replace our vehicles (and don't love collecting cars like some other people 😂) but at some point we're going to have to buy something new and a fossil fuel guzzling monster is probably going to be frowned upon (even more heavily) in the years to come.
lolztoken.com
It's pretty handy.
Credit: reddit
$LOLZ
Delegate Hive Tokens to Farm $LOLZ and earn 110% Rewards. Learn more.
(3/8)@galenkp, I sent you an on behalf of @consciouscat
It's an interesting concept to think about, a leapfrog scenario I mean. It's happened many times in history when something is being worked on, even implemented, that is rendered ineffective or obsolete almost immediately or prior to it running its course. I don't like of what that could be, probably not the flux capacitor, but what if, you know?
Yes, some buy a lot of cars huh? Guilty. I know the number, but don't like to say it lest people think I'm bonkers in a bad way, which I probably am! My Landcruiser is the way to go for me, and when I replace it that vehicle will be another diesel, probably a pickup truck, but my next town car is probably hybrid, like my company car, but better.
Yeah, I remember my Dad being sure that minidisks were going to be the new way we listened to music and then it was replaced with... CD's? Something. I'm sure we could think of heaps of examples.
With cars I think Brad was thinking hydrogen. I'm not much of a mechanically minded human (not my natural kind of intelligence) but it seems to make sense to him. I'm just like:
"Can't we use human power (to get us to exercise more) or use that ridiculous amount of sunlight we have landing on this massive contintent every day to power us to get from A to B?! Like, surely!"
Ah, I don't mean to guilt you. We're all human. We all like different, particular, sometimes perculiar human things. I think that's part of the fun of being here. And heck, like I can talk: we drove our 4WD more than 400km last Saturday essentially just to collect another 5km parkrun location. So... you know, humanness.
We have hydrogen buses here in Adelaide, they work fine. A pity the public transport system is a shambles though.
I was thinking human power might work...I'm going to get me a palanquin and some willing volunteers to carry it. #wayofthefuture
I thought the point of PHEV was that they don't have to be charged? If you bought an EV and there were too few charging points between your destination you'd be screwed.
But I thought with a PHEV you can continue on petrol until it's convenient to charge?
I've been looking at the PHEV Volvo V60 recently and getting really tempted. I've always loved Audis but the latest generation of Volvos look so much better in my opinion.
They don't have to be charged no, there is a combustion engine...but if not charged, and one runs off the combustion engine for long distances, what's the point of buying it for the EV aspect in the first place?
Volvos have insane sitting comfort. I drove a few of them and they're great for long trips. The old models were also very reliable, don't know much about the new ones and they're safe and quite appealing at sight as well.
Yep, that's what they say and in my experience they're right. They are underrated in this country, less popular than the other three, but I like them.
Hi Galenkp,
Unfortunately, as much as we are globally trying to inculcate a rapid transition to plug-in electric vehicles, I don't even see its applicability in cities today.
How many charging stations would be necessary for a large city?
Are the electrical infrastructures in many of the countries prepared with the current energy crises to supply the huge demand that would exist with only 50% of the current car fleet demanding electric power?
I agree that it is necessary to reduce emissions that harm the environment, but like any transition it must be orderly and well thought out without causing other major crises.
I remember the diesel boom that was the salvation of the environment and now it is the great reviled for the greenhouse gases that are emitted.
In short, economic and political powers pulling our strings like puppets.
With that said, I would currently buy a petrol combustion car with a non-plug-in hybrid engine and the most efficient cars I have seen in technical specifications are Japanese cars such as Honda and Toyota.
I totally agree with all you say, and for the same reasons. I think it's politically correct to up-talknthe PHEV and EV scenario, but in reality, it's. It overly practical for infrastructure and cost reasons. Of course, mass-adoption will take care of cost, generally, but mass adoption is a mong way off.
I drive a hybrid as my company car and it's the best option currently in my belief.
I've done a lot of my own research in the area. My needs are different, I seldom need to make long drives any more except maybe a couple times a year if I go to main office. For that, I can drive my other car or take a short flight. I think you would be disappointed in a hybrid. While many think it's a benefit to have a backup of gas engine, it's really a compromise of both worlds. I'd suggest a wait for the EV battery life to go up and just stick with legacy gas engine until then. There are only two drawbacks to EV that I experienced, one is the limited range and charging capacity time, the other for some folks is the sound. The like the roar of the gas engines. That's not a negative for me, I don't need the loud sound to boost my ego, (I prefer the ego boost of leaving them in my taillights, lol). The EV definitely have a speed advantage out of the gate. It's really quite thrilling to do 0-60 in 6 seconds. Some are limited in top end speed. I'd take a hard look at the new Chevy Silverado EV coming out soon. I've got one on pre-order. It's certainly the one to measure off in my book, and reasonably priced compared to some of the others. It gets 640km range. Can do a quick charge from DC chargers to gain 100 miles in 10 minutes. Whichever model you choose, be sure to get the 220/230 volt charger for home, so you can get full charge overnight, but also the option for the DC quick charger when traveling. The DC quick chargers are getting more and more distributed across the U.S. So the concerns of being stuck are far less. For those that do mostly shorter day-to-day commutes, I can only tell you that it is simply wonderful not having to wait in line or even stop at the gas stations. Simply wake up with a fully charged ride ready to go each day. I had the little Chevy Bolt EV for three years and loved it. I had the Tesla truck on order, but will likely drop it. I can hardly wait for my Chevy AWD EV Truck order to come in! The GMC Denali looks like will be very nice too, but that a little farther out and higher priced. I have a GMC Canyon Denali now, so that will be a pull for sure though, I just can't see what justifies an extra $40K.
My company vehicle is hybrid and I don't mind it, although it's not the fastest thing I've ever driven. Economical though.
I've not had much to do with full EV's and will need to get some experience one of these days but there's not a huge range here yet, and it's also unlikely we'll see those trucks anytime soon...one of them, I think I could own quite easily!
I agree about the range and charge time issues but also feel they'll work it out. My concern is longevity though, I mean my Samsung S20 battery failed after 18 months...I wonder how I'd feel if my $100,000 car did the same? (Hint: Heads would roll)
I'm young enough to (hopefully) have many years of driving ahead and the way I do so will change meaning the EV's will become more suitable so I'm sure I'll end up with one. I don't think it'll be this year though.
We are on the same page with this 👍👍
✅
I will probably need a new car soon, (mine is 10 years old and several things under the "hood" are made of plastic and are starting to perish) - and I can conclusively report that after hours of research, everything available on the Australian market right now (Petrol, Diesel, Electric, PHEV, Pedal Powered, or some other bizzare propulsion device) is absolute and utter trash, or as we refer to them "a shit box".
That includes "lightly used" vehicles, as well as new ones.
There's only one car that really tickles my fancy.
i30 N: Sedan.
Yep years is a good amount of time, they're not actually made to last that long these days.
You know, I was told by Toyota that they consider the warranty period the life of the car. Crazy right?
I've not driven the i30N but have seen them and they look ok. One of my mates is a dealership tech at a Hyundai dealer and he's convinced the Hyundai product is pretty good. The dealership transitioned from Holden to Hyundai for obvious reasons and he didn't previously like the latter. He's now an advocate after working on them.