I decided to make a post about something very sensitive, but I needed to talk about it, and also in the meantime, it is a way that I consider that can help somehow this cause. Last week like many of the community saw an unfortunate post that @mayifiestas posted. She and her husband are going through a very tough moment and posted about it. You can check the post in here. I feel very sorry for them going through these difficult times. I can't even describe how they are feeling and they obviously need help from the community.
How to help them?
Sending anything to help them with the costs they must go through. In their country 2 thousand dollars is a lot of money, I am not very experienced with Venezuelan currency. So any one dollar can count to overcome these costs.
What about DHF funds for that?
Now here it lays my disagreement. What is the DHF fund?
Every day a portion of the HBD fund managed by the DHF is distributed to various proposals, depending on a) how much the proposal is asking for and b) how much approval the proposal has.
Anyone can request Funding from Hive community and once there is enough support funds are distributed in parts, automatically by chain.
The DHF was a concept proposed by @blocktrades to allow Hive users to publicly propose work they are willing to do in exchange for pay. Hive users can then vote on these proposals in almost the same way they vote for witnesses. It uses stake-weighted votes, but voters can vote for as many proposals as they want.
The Decentralized Hive Fund (DHF) is a proposal-based DPoS financing alternative. The DHF places the consensus behind direct financing of development and other ecosystem-positive projects into the hands of the stakeholders. The distribution of the DHF is decentralized by design. Support for a proposal is calculated based on the total stake in support of that proposal. When a user opts to support a number of proposals, their stake influences the proposals equally. Support for a proposal may be granted or removed but the mechanism cannot be used to negate the sum of supporting stakes with a negative vote. This prevents one single large stakeholder from doubling the impact of their stake and influencing the remuneration of numerous proposals, creating a level playing field.
source: https://developers.hive.io/services/dhf.html
The concept of DHF brings an opportunity for members of the community to bring ideas that can be financed after the decision of the stakeholders, us. But can it be any idea? Initially, it looked like it was more focused in chain development. Front ends, dexes, games or any system tools that can help Hive grow and have more utilities. We see lots of proposals for this matter on the list. I agree that the initial concept of the usage of DHF funds can be outdated, and that's why @valueplan arrived with ideas to improve the blockchain with marketing and outreach. Growing the blockchain means also exposing and making it more popular in the crypto and out-of the crypto world. We need Hive to be listed in more exchanges for example. We need to onboard more people.
Our community members taking care of this part of "our growing" brought some ideas about charitable actions that can be used as marketing, so now we have a water well in Africa with the Hive name on that. Does this marketing work? That is another polemic that many people are in favor and some other are against. But this is not the case of this post to create some debate about how @valueplan funds are being used.
Each of us is a stakeholder of Hive while staking Hive in Hive Power form. That means that Hive can be seen as a business/company and we are partners. Recently I saw a great comment thread at @friendlymoose 's post about this topic with @smooth participation. What is his views about Hive author's rewards and how high rewards can influence our company's progress? You can check this comment thread here. .
So if some of us write a DHF proposal to help our personal needs is that correct? In my opinion, no. DHF proposals are ideas for our growth as a company. Despite of the sad story, there are many ways to help this matter and we all can do as a community. I understand that the user created a proposal because of her despair of the moment, and I understand that. It is not her fault doing that
.It becomes a collective responsibility for the community to carefully consider the scope of proposals. So now and on, many stakeholders will start creating proposals that will benefit only themselves. Funds that were separated to help grow our Business will be used for personal needs.
Possible solutions for getting funds for personal causes
We all know GoFundMe or similar websites? Why not have a front end that could be used like that? or even a tab in one of the existing front ends. In this tool, any user would be able to create a fund proposal, with buttons to donate HBD or Hive, this way the money will come from personal pockets.
Final Remarks
97% of my part of the rewards of this post will go to @mayifiestas. And 3% will go to @commentrewarder to maybe stimulate some engagement and thoughts about this, since my idea is to make people think about it especially those stakeholders that decided to vote in favor of this proposal, including @guiltyparties, who seem to be very concerned with the whole health of community members and as a world citizen, which is a great characteristic in a person. But maybe we need to think our DHF funds should be used for a specific purpose, not for every possible need. I opened this space for a healthy discussion about the subject, and I am aware that probably I am also viewing the DHF funds definition in an outdated way and I am a minority.
There have been discussions of a patreon like interface for Hive and a big reason reoccurring transfers came about.
While it is a good use case the actual usage will likely be tiny. Hive works for most people here due to inflation and it isn’t costing anyone anything. Look at platforms like DESO where all rewards come from your wallet and you can see them failing miserably.
We don’t have the user base where 1% or less can turn a patreon clone into a thriving dapp. There are certainly times it would be handy but we have plenty of tooling available to us right now to satisfy the demand we currently have.
I agree charity isn’t a good use case for the DHF but that’s pretty much how it is being used so far.
It is a good point, like many interesting daps that felt under usage despite having a good use case.
Sure the "tip me" or even direct transfers are possible, right? and the user can post updates of how much money still is left to achieve the goal.
Good to see that I am not the only one with these thoughts. We also need more awareness that even votes can affect "our business", so even curation shouldn't be performed in a random way as many do. But that is a topic for another post at another time.
There is a confusing typo in the first line.
fixed. auto correct...
hmmm when I was small, my grand parents taught me that If I wanted to help people, I must do it with my hand, my effort, and my own wallet. I should not manipulate other to do that and claim it as HELP, and any credit I take from it will be considered as debt that I will have to pay in after life.
The elderly always bring some type of wise knowledge! they were right.
Hey, same thoughts. I think the DHF should be used for the chain’s growth, and not for personal gain.
Having a GoFundMe here on Hive would be great. I even think a community suffices for that, every post in that community will be used solely for fundraising. However not all people can see the posts of that community, so maybe frontends can every now and then show “active” posts that have ongoing fundraising. Just a couple of thoughts.
I am a guy that is very much towards helping other people. I would love to participate in any project that is focused on this type of cause. I am just being honest, I know that I am not a savior or something like that or a saint. But like you said, DHF is for something else. We shouldn't put everything in the same bucket.
Very tricky topic... If we would like to be/stay decentralized community/chain/social media, we could have an opinion about how the DHF is used and what proposals are good or bad... But, in the end, anyone can create a proposal... As someone stated in the comments, there are already funded proposals that are used for "personal cause", but maybe not "clearly stated"... So, I wouldn't limit the DHF in any way... I could agree or disagree, but that's just my 2c...
And regarding the GoFund platform on HIVE, I'm all for it... We need something like that, and if we had it, then we would see how powerful is our community (or not)...
Thanks for raising this delicate topic! I hope it will get more exposure!
Adding my small grain of sand...
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I was writing the answer but I got busy… so yes anyone can submit a proposal and thats what what our decentralization allows… but we need to be more responsible in what we vote … that is my opinion and what I feel in many other voices heard. Thanks for the input!
Sem condição de eu acompanhar todo o ingles que tão usando nos comentários!
Fez tua parte irmão, segue firme que está com a consciência tranquila.
É uma bela ação!
!hiqvote
Great topic for discussion! I also have mixed feelings about it.... As much as possible, I like to contribute something from my HBD when I see a user I know needs it. I don't have that much but sometimes a grain of sand can add up to something. But using DHF funds for personal causes is a step beyond that, those funds are supposed to benefit all of us as a community, promoting our chain in pursuit of growth and improvement. Having an exclusive section for donations, with voluntary contributions from the community would be great. I think something like this already exists, driven by the Aliento project (you can see it at @aliento.aid) but I didn't get to know the project. There could also be a community where you could make posts that seek to raise funds for personal causes, just to group content of this type. What do you think about this?
I heard about this project but I admit that never checked… maybe I will start to contribute for that one thanks for the shout out! :)
É realmente uma boa discussão. Chegar em casa eu quero ler com calma tudo aqui, mas fico feliz por você ter essa ideia de ajudar a pessoa, apenas usando as ferramentas de forma correta.
A comunidade Brasileira se solidarizaria com a sua situação @mayifiestas, fizemos a curação deste post para te ajudar de alguma forma. Espero que de tudo certo para você.
This is a really good discussion. When I get home I want to read everything here calmly, but I'm glad you have this idea of helping people, just by using the tools correctly.
The Brazilian community would be in solidarity with your situation mayifiestas, we curated this post to help you in some way. I hope everything works out for you.
Excessive DHF funds should be burned, the inflation is far too high and we are overpaying for most initiatives. Some of the people doing 'the work' are not keeping minutes and are being paid hundreds of dollars a day even if they are taking days off or working a fulltime job elsewhere. We also have duplicate projects and overlaps such as multiple things to hold keys, multiple front ends, etc. Why are we paying for more? And don't get me started on the Steem monsters or whatever they call it, Splinterlands now. They are taking $1000s per day and giving zero back to hive. We should loan businesses money not provide them with grants. This is why I won't invest another cent in Hive and it scares other people away.
As for charity, the world is full of suffering. If we give one user money, more will come. It will be endless. Corporate charity is mostly done because of the tax write-offs and free advertising. If someone wants to come along and submit some proposal to make a better way to give, I wouldn't support that either. Just tag charity, help, etc. and hope for the best or use another platform. Hive is struggling, the market cap should be 5 to 10 times larger, the users should be growing exponentially and people who have been here for years should being doing great. This is not the case. Ask for money when the price of hive is $5.00 not $0.2x
I don't disagree about the first paragraph , but I wanted to focus on the second! I think many share your feeling. I totally understand the despair of someone in need! but we need to separate business from helping....DHF fund is money for business. Many problems on it? yes, but what you said I just answered the same in another comment hehe . The best way for this things is by community voluntary actions. Maybe some one can open an account and manage this account to receive donations, and when someone wants to apply, and the donations come from voluntary donations, not derived from DHF funds. There isn't a need for a DHF proposal for that! Just a trustable person or group of people managing an account probably there are already some of these accounts around, we just don't know about them.
Adding more layers and sophistication to charity just leads to more administrative costs, it increases the potential for fraud, there will be bias and there will be guaranteed waste because of complexity. If Hive moves in this general direction, I am out. It probably scare many investors in general as they like to separate investing and giving. Charity should be grassroots. If you want to help someone retweet their post or do as you are, go one step further. Write posts about them, spread awareness and as you know there is a mechanism to tithe a percentage of your post to other user accounts.
We don't need someone or some frontend acting as an intermediary for charity. As I said, Hive is broke and most of the users with a significant amount of hive as suffering from years of low prices. That being said, if you want to educate people on how to give or share a percentage of their post to others go for it.
Maybe i wasnt a bit clear i wasnt suggesting using any hive’s fund for that! It could be something like you said in the end! We are in the same page !
Dhf is a joke right now, if I make a proposal to buy me a golden toilet and blocktrades and few other whales support it, it's done, wtf is that crap
it should be used merely to chain development and improvements, hell no one knows hive if you go ask around why not use those founds for advertising done properly (and developments).
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This is a very difficult discussion. It's the second proposal like this, the first one being for a baby girl I believe last year. That one was thankfully resolved when a local government service came through. There's no right or wrong answer here. We all know the person in question or can get to know him, we know he will be paralyzed and it's just a matter of time. Yes, it would be better and would mean a lot to the family if individuals came together to help them without the DHF. If the DHF proposal can achieve an alternative fundraising method then it would be optimal. From my point of view, I support the proposal. But its also with the point of view of someone who sets aside most of my power downs for people's medical expenses, food, kids education and other critical costs. I think about the people who couldn't be saved every day, last one was a baby, the power down gave it a chance. Prior to it was a little boy. If it wasn't for Blocktrades helping it would be a lot more. I don't have the ability to cover this. And I don't have the answer to this. This is a good discussion to have.
I recognized your humanity sense. And that is a good quality and difficult to find nowadays. Like I said I don't judge you as a human. Also I don't think that the two users (the current one and the baby's mother), since they would do anything to fix their problem. We don't need to be like a government where we know exactly the % of the country's funds being allocated to an area. But maybe adding everything to the same bag is confusing and chaotic! We should help this couple ? For sure we do. But am not sure if we can use the DHF for that, since its function is to promote hive... I am not old in the blockchain like you or Marky or other people around, but since I joined I have seen many people going through bad situations. Imagine if all of them submit a proposal?
How do charitable institutions work? maybe we can create a hive based one. A fund with donations and people submit proposals for that fund? Again, I am empathic for the cause, I am not playing against it!
A charitable DHF proposal for multiple distributions will be overwhelmed almost immediately, I don't recommend it. Right now when people come to me I have to triage and see what can go where how. A lot of people on Hive aren't doing well. A non-DHF charity that is connected to Hive can work, however. There is no good answer for this topic in general, its the wrong decision no matter what decision is made.