This is a response to @susanne post about being a woman in tech. Also, wow, that comments section. Steemit, do better.
Susanne,
I'm Kat. I blog anon here, but I decided to make a new account and show my face because this is an important issue for me. I've been in the blockchain/cryptocurrency space since 2012. I went to Wellesley College and lived in the Feminist Cooperative for two years. Starting my Freshman Summer of college, I began doing research in the MIT Media Lab and cross-registered at MIT until I graduated. I started to experience these microaggressions you describe. This is also around the same time I discovered Bitcoin and fell down the rabbit-hole of crypto. I've had lots of internships/jobs since then, and yes, sexism is there:
I went to a Bitcoin conference and I was the only woman there. I was the only Female PennApps Fellow in 2014 was housed by myself and missed out on all the casual interactions with the fellows--Literally pushed out. I currently go to a lot of conferences and get asked if I'm someone's wife constantly (actually at one conference, someone thought I was an escort!). At the NYC Bitcoin Center, where I attended meet-ups twice a week for almost a year, I'd have men who were first timers come up to me and ask if I was "the artist" (there was art on the wall) as if it were an art gala. I was the only female at my last job with over 15 employees. I'm the only female founder and employee of my current one. We've all had experiences like this, and thank you for sharing yours.
I'm a feminist.
It's not a dirty word--for boys or girls.
What I think you're trying to say when you say you're not a feminist is "I don't hate/think women are better than men!" "Don't think I'm one of *those* hairy-armpitted, birkenstock-wearing, raging mad feminazis"
That's not what feminism is. That's not who I am, and that's not who you are either. Its definition is "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men."
You just described all the instances in which you weren't socially treated the same as your male co-workers. I told you a bunch of mine. Don't you want to advocate for equal social rights? (You actually already kind of did with your post)
I choose to be (semi)active about my advocacy. I started I started http://bitcoinwomen.org/ to organize women in crypto. I got coinbase to give every woman at my school $10 in BTC. I don't scream at anyone. I don't burn bras. I'm happy when someone holds a door for me--it's nice, I wouldn't yell at them for it, but I also wouldn't expect them to hold it for me. I try to encourage everyone I meet to learn anything they can about the tech world--I've already gotten a couple of my friends and people in my community into Steemit.
I call myself a feminist. When you say you're not one, you discredit me, my work, and the work of so many others before us. When you say you're not a feminist, people see the "raging bitch" stereotype instead of people like you and me.
I ask you, please, to reassess your label. Or, at least, don't shit on mine.
And if what you're actually saying is "Trolls on the internet please don't send me rape threats for talking about feminism".... fuck 'em.
-Kat
Hi @kato
I have read your post now. In hindsight, I realize that my comment "I'm not a feminist" was very unnecessary. And I get why that is offensive to you. I'm sorry!
I should have spent more time writing my summary. I could have said it somehow like this instead: "I don't consider myself a feminist, because I don't know enought about it. I'm pro equality. And I’m sick of being underestimated, just because I’m not a boy.
I will keep your post in mind, and I will check out http://bitcoinwomen.org/.
Susanne
Hey @susanne! Thanks so much for reading and reflecting!
I'm sick of being underestimated based on my gender, too. There are people doing things about it, though! If you want to learn more about them, or at the very least, make some gal friends in tech so you can bitch about your day from someone who understands, head to a "women in tech" meetup or something similar wherever you are. I find everyone at the ones I've been to very friendly!
That's the least I could do, I'm truly sorry!
That's good to know, and maybe I should consider that too. And I'll def. look that up.
I questioned a post earlier and was met with 'would it have been more valuable if I was in a bikini?' I had questioned the post, not the postER, and I did not know the person's gender identity.
In general I don't think people like being called 'ists' unless they self identify as 'ists'. Susanne saying she is not a 'feminist' may be similar to me saying I am not a 'statist' although it seems like 98.7% of people on steemit would call me one. I don't call myself one so I reject the title. If I read up on it I may decide I like the title, but until then don't.
I'm lucky my IT department is all women, they get stuff done.
Nice glasses!
I think what @joelkatz and others think is going on is called a Motte-and-Bailey argument. A term is given two meanings; one innocuous and defensible, and another that is more provocative. When the doctrine is attacked, advocates lean on the more innocuous meaning, but otherwise the more provocative meaning is used. In this example, feminism might be defended as "equality among the sexes" but when the battle dies down, the meaning "preferential treatment for women" or "inferior treatment for men" would be used.
I'm not sure this is really happening much with feminism, but I can think of other examples. Religious 'faith' can have unobjectionable meanings like sticking to a consistent of moral principles over time, but also can mean uncritical acceptance of miraculous claims (healing people by laying on hands, etc). Depending who you talk to and in what circumstance, you get a different definition (or a more vague definition). The insidious thing about it is that when you have bought into an ideology, it can feel much like both definitions are identical.
I have heard Feminism described as a religion numerous times, Patriarchy Theory is their god and must never be questioned; from that all other doctrine follows and everything that is proclaimed by a feminist should be taken on faith, truth is relative and facts that contradict the narrative must be ignored.
And she harasses another girl for saying she is not a feminist.
Go figure
Damn gender traitors :p lol
It certainly is really happening. There are dozens of examples. Just punch things like "can you be a feminist and" into your favorite search engine for lots of examples. But people can reasonably disagree on whether this is mainstream feminism today or whether it's just a few people at the margins.
I'm upvoting, but I don't agree with your sentiment. The feminist label has been tainted beyond repair by people who were not worthy of it. Its message would be far better received if offered under a different label.
When I hear the word feminist, I imagine...well...pretty much exactly the picture you attached to your post: A scowling woman with no makeup and thick glasses giving me, and the world, the middle finger. Not that there's anything wrong with being a scowling woman with no makeup giving the world the middle finger, it's just not something that most aspire to.
I think you are talking about something which is perhaps most unambiguously referred to as "radical feminism."
Feminism is a very, very, very, very, very, very common-sense idea. It is the default. If you don't agree with it, the burden of proof is on you to explain why. If you say "I'm a feminist," you haven't said much.
If you say "I'm not a feminist," whoa...
That's pretty sketchy.
You may agree or disagree about the linguistics here, but I'm just laying out the facts as I see them.
I have lots of complaints about all kinds of corners of the English language, but I accept that the English language and semantics in general are a "commons," and not necessarily something that I can just change because I agree or disagree with the way negation works in a particular context.
I disagree with all types of collectivism and the label feminist often is used by this kind of person, who believes simple abstract categories are more important than the complex, concrete individual. Your brand of feminism seems only marginally distant from pure individualism, and for that reason I upvote and comment here.
I can honestly say that I have been fortunate enough to have met and had varying depths of contact with wonderful, geeky women, and I wish there was more, because it makes my search for a good partner all that much more difficult. Feminism often gets muddled up with all kinds of crappy stuff like fascism, misandry, misanthropy in general, and I think that is not what it originally meant.
The earliest feminists were liberals, and notable early anarchists were involved in this, some were socialists, some libertarian, hell, all these labels get confusing as false me-toos get a benefit off riding the achievements of the pioneers, and certainly some very evil people have made much hay out of this movement to destroy the natural tribal and familiar bonds between people, even to promote the idea that humans are an inherently evil species, except for the slimebags promoting this nonsense.
I think it's something a lot of women would aspire to. I regularly go on my balcony and flip double birds to the world just in case anyone is watching.
This is where you went wrong: you imagined what one would look like. STOP. That's the point of the post. Bad stereotypes about feminism hurt their cause just like bad stereotypes about Bitcoiners.
You don't like my glasses? :(
"Imagine" was a poor choice of words on my part. I should have said that I've been "conditioned" to conceive of feminists that way, mainly by feminists themselves The picture you chose reinforces that conditioning (rather than countering it, which was apparently the intended purpose of your essay), so it was an odd choice.
You may recall that the narrative around Bitcoin shifted in 2015 when most everyone stopped hyping "Bitcoin" and instead started hyping the "blockchain". This was because the word "Bitcoin" had become so tainted in the public's mind that we had to change the buzz word to make it more palatable and get past their mental blocks. Feminism needs to do the same thing.
I actually like your glasses fine, they just fit the conditioned stereotype, that's all.
I took the picture specifically for this post. Its a photo of me, I took on my iPad right before posting it. I guess I look like your idea of a stereotypical feminist just in my natural habitat. Pinning my cause, and your assessment of it, to a photo of myself seems trivial. My point still stands. You can do something about your conditioning. See @susanne as a feminist, too. See @florentina as a feminist. We don't all look the same.
I disagree. Hyping "Gender Equality" (or pick whatever term you want) has its place. Hyping feminism has its place (like when speaking about women in tech).
We hype both Bitcoin and the blockchain still. (most news regarding crypto in mainstream media I see are still about Bitcoin, but that's anecdotal).
We can hype both. Here, I wanted to talk about feminism specifically.
Unrelated: I ordered these a couple weeks ago, so maybe I'll look a little more "feminine" for you next time. See?! They have glitter! Like for girls!
" This was because the word "Bitcoin" had become so tainted in the public's mind that we had to change the buzz word to make it more palatable and get past their mental blocks. Feminism needs to do the same thing." So are you, @sean-king suggesting that if the "buzz word" for equality was something other than the word FEMINIST, it would be more easily accepted? And that there is a need to make the word and concept "more palatable" for sad little men who are easily intimidated and put off by women who don't wear makeup and have the gall to wear glasses that were not chosen with a man's precious point of view? Thank Goddess for men like Prime Minister Trudeau, actor Mark Ruffalo, young Joseph Gordon Levitt and many, many other men who call themselves feminists. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/23/joseph-gordon-levitt-feminism-video-hitrecord_n_5868608.html
I would have agreed with you not so long ago but I have been looking into the movement for a while now and all is not as it seems. I had a dark and divisive history. You can throw that dictionary definition out of the window, actions speak louder than words. If anybody is interested in what the movement is trying to achieve and how it goes about trying to achieve it have a look at amongst others https://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat or https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVRQqUgDRBevsDGOeE1DL3A (Feminism LOL), these ladies will shock you
She is not a scowling woman with no makeup, she is an articulate, accomplished individual who was intelligent enough to study at MIT. That is sure as hell something to aspire to.
What does makeup have to do with it?
@soulsistashakti are you asking me or the guy who brought makeup into it?
If it's me, I don't think makeup should have anything to do with it. Instead of focusing on her words, he went straight for her appearance--which blows my mind.
I am a woman who works as an environmental attorney. While I enjoy makeup, I often skip it because I am busy doing other things. Let's hope it is not secretly being held against me.
lol. I know it's not being held against me I'm a recording artist in dance music. Let's just hope being a feminist isn't being held against me. :)
You shouldn't upvote
Who the fuck is she to shame other women into not saying their are not feminists
Alright, so upvote him then. That's how steemit works... :)
Even if White Supremacy were defined as "the advocacy of equal rights for people of all races", I still wouldn't identify myself as a white supremacist because the term itself contains the word "white" and that mantle has historically been used excessively by racists. Similarly, "feminism" is a gendered term that has been used excessively by people who argue for things that have nothing to do with gender equality.
A lot of people refuse to adopt the label of "feminism" for precisely the reason many people think it's so important that they adopt it -- to appear to provide a uniform front under a common term even when people disagree over what the problem is and how to solve it.
Imagine the same thing with the term "white supremacy" and a complaint about how the racists are ruining the term. Unfortunately, a lot of people who fit the stereotype have picked up the same mantle and lots of people don't want to appear to support them. How about you change to a neutral term like "gender equality" instead of a biased one like "feminism"?
You probably don't want to do that for the very same reason that others don't want to adopt the term you prefer.
There are real problems with gender equality in this country. But if you'd prefer to fight over a term rather than unite with people who want gender equity as much as you do, that's your choice. But the people on the other side feel as strongly as you do.
I understand your critique of a gendered term and that there are huge issues surrounding gender equality. In this case, I was responding to someone who specifically stated that she "wasn't a feminist" (in bold) in a post talking about women in the tech industry and thought the term "feminist" would be appropriate in my response for her.
There is much intersectionality of other gender equality, race, class, and social issues. I'm a woman in tech. I wrote about feminism specifically because it's something that I feel needs specific attention and it's relevant to me. I was also directly responding to someone who was saying she wasn't a feminist. She's actually making a positive assertion, disguised as a negation. So actually in your example:
It would actually be "white supremacy" and a complaint about the people who say they're not white supremacists.
I believe in equality. I'm a feminist, gender-equalist, LGBTQ ally. All those issues have issues specific to them, and a lot of them have issues that intersect.
My post is a woman speaking to another woman about being a woman in tech--to unite each other. The term feminist is perfectly acceptable.
If you want to start a fight about terms, go elsewhere.
I am a woman in tech and I am not a feminist, and it is offensive to me that you blame me for how you were treated
You wrote an article about people calling themselves "feminists" and about what the term means. Neither of us started this fight, but your article is entirely about an existing fight over a term.
No, I wrote a response to a specific woman about her use of the phrase "I'm not a feminist" in an article about women in the technology industry that got a lot of attention. This response/post is about my experience in the tech industry, my work, and how the use of the phrase "not a feminist" impacts my work. I'm using a gendered term because I'm addressing a gendered issue. I'm speaking about my experience as a woman to another woman. I think this is very different than the difference between saying you're a gender equalist and a feminist.
As you say, what triggered your response was the use of the phrase "I'm not a feminist" from someone who, by all accounts, seems to fully support gender equality. The issue is whether "feminist" and "feminism" means gender equality or something else.
Perhaps my use of the term "entirely" is unfair. But certainly this was a major point of your article.
You can insist on the term "feminist" or "feminism", but you will alienate people who could be your allies in a fight for gender equality. You would be insisting on a gendered term to represent the fight for gender equality. There are some people, both men and women, who cannot accept that and so long as neither side gives in, the common cause will not advance.
Joelkatz,feminism is an established term,with an established definition. Feminism has gotten a lot of unfair bad reputation because men a lot of men(and a fair amount of women) feel threatened by it,and they do not want to see realities like the ones Kat and Susanne describe. This, however does not change the definition of a term You can always make an etymological analysis,or look it up,but this does not change the current meaning,as the meaning of a word in lingvistics is based on usage,not etymology.
feminism (countable and uncountable, plural feminisms)
(obsolete) The state of being feminine; femininity. [from 1851; less common after 1895] [quotations ▼]
A social theory or political movement which argues that legal and social restrictions on women must be removed in order to bring about equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life
If you don´t have a problem with seing that we live in a sexist society,and you want to change it,why pick on words?
As I said, for precisely the same reason you are. You also are unwilling to accept that I fully support gender equality but object to the term "feminism" or "feminist". It's a gendered term. Why can't you agree to abandon it in favor of a gender-neutral term? Surely the concept of gender equality is gender neutral. Why are you fighting over a word?
This matters to me for precisely the same reason it matters to you. You are defending a gendered term that you want to use in a gender neutral way. I'd prefer a gender neutral term. Surely you'd understand a woman who didn't want to be called a "fireman" and preferred "fire fighter", despite the fact that the definition of "fireman" is not gendered. I fully support gender equality but don't like using a gendered term for gender equality.
When I read Susanne's comment, "I am not a feminist," I too cringed. I was preparing to reply to her when I saw your comment and linked to your post here. Your response was perfect. As for @sean-king's assertion that "being a scowling woman with no makeup giving the world the middle finger" isn't something most women aspire to...well, don't even get me started on that. When are men going to understand that women are not here to look pretty for them or for anyone else, that we neither need nor welcome their "validation," and that sexism exists no matter how many men (and women) say it doesn't. It's not just for women, equal rights are for the benefit of all humans regardless of gender. Some of the best men I know are feminists. Love your glasses.
I'd actually love to get you started on that. You should write a post about it! We're building this Steemit community together, and if you have strong thoughts, you should write about them!
8 ) Thanks!
Men think the world revolves around them. They need to get over themselves.
You got men wrong in your reply it should have read people. As in, "when are people going to realize I don't need to look pretty to be accepted in society" . You know, the typical teenager rant.
I just don't hear any feminists fighting as aggressively about other women in other countries like they do in our own.
I don't see feminists arguing for men's rights.
I don't see feminists who are not fighting hard for their right to be a victim.
To turn feminism on it's head, all you have to do is replace the words "women" with "men". The grass is always greener on the other side and modern feminism seems much more about cherry picking the best parts of being a dude and none of that other stuff. The comedian Bill Burr said, that those hard core feminists would oh so quickly change their standpoint should they be on a sinking ship and all the women and children were being ushered to the life boats first.
I am a man, and I actually value women highly, I am glad that you are happy when a man holds a door open for you because I am one of them. I am willing to hear, and to fight for any legitimate issues women face but I have to agree with sean-king's comment where he says that he does not agree with you sentiment.
Feminists would achieve much more if they focused less on being a victim and the assumption of absolute and tyrannical patriarchy, and more on reaching an understanding that BOTH sexes are faced with significant issues that are really worth exploring.
Argue with this as you may but the simple truth of the matter will remain.
To get anywhere with inequality, we need to do it together, and this cannot be achieved when each side feels relentlessly attacked no matter how hard they work towards equality.
(So, in that last one you're saying you only see feminists who are fighting hard for their right to be a victim? Sorry, that is a confusing sentence. )
You're not looking hard enough, then. Anecdotal evidence doesn't make it true. Scroll through the Steemit front page.
I think you need to think about your opinions on gender roles in particular. The fact that you say "the best parts of being a dude" makes me think that you're not quite there on the "equality" part.
@susanne and I literally just told you about legitimate issues we face in the workplace. These things happen to women all the time. In 2012, just 18 percent of computer-science college graduates were women, down from 37 percent in 1985. Do it. Fight.
You're going to feel uncomfortable sometimes. I do too. People call me out for being racist, or sexist and I have to think about to and reassess my views and actions. This is part of the process. I'm not claiming perfection here.
You say you don't want women to play the victim card, well, don't play the victim card either. You're not being relentlessly attacked (or at least, I don't see evidence of that here). We're having a conversation about being a woman in tech. We address these specific issues with the word feminism because they relate to women.
There are places to speak about overall equality, in this case, we're speaking about Women in Tech. Feminism applies here.
scum I agree with most of what you said but I do not think feminism and I mean the dictionary definition has anything to fight for in western democracies as imperfect as they are. Not one feminist can point to a law that gives men any rights women don't have in west... If they want to get on a plane and go march through the centre of Mecca more power to them but from where I'm standing at best they come across as immature and naive puppets and at worst malicious and vindictive misandric puppet masters
I think most people would welcome more women into crypto with open arms or just not care because it's non an issue.... Crypto is open to anyone. When you went to that crypto conference and you were the only woman there it wasn't because the MAN was trying to keep them out.... it's because it just so happened that at this time, more men are interested in this than women. I don't think that's an issue of equal rights. Also as far as reassessing the "feminist label", it's insane feminists nazi type that want to abort male children and scream at people that hold open doors that tarnished your label and image not the average person.
This post was crap to me the second I saw you sneak the lesbian propaganda word "microaggresion" in the first paragraph. This is a completely made up word SJW lesbians use to denote themselves as "victims" of "evil white male patriarchy". The word microaggresion itself, due to the context it's always used in, is a sexist, misandrist word.
You're sitting here complaining about men, claiming they're stereotyping you, while using misandrist connotation against all men at the same time. This is why nobody takes feminists seriously, everything about them revolves around double standards and hypocritical behavior.
All of these new age, made up SJW words like "microaggresion" are defined around men always being the perpetrator of some made up crime and women always being the victim.
As for the whole feminism thing, men and women are not equal. Nor are they even similar at all. It's like claiming a cactus and a frying pan are equal. There's no valid comparison to make. What you're pushing is called cultural Marxism, a pseudoscience.
You're going to claim blah blah, I mean just equal in capability. This isn't even true. Humans are somewhat biological robots with limited free will. Most are pre-designed with certain traits and predestined to gravitate towards certain interests and behaviors.
This means on a bell curve you're always going to find big red flags for why they are not equal or even similar. Outliers do not matter in the grand scheme of things, only the bell curve.
I don't think you're capable of handling the real truth. The real truth is, on a bell curve, the path of least resistance for a woman to pass on her genes is to be a bimbo with good looks and otherwise bland, non-confrontational personality that will not conflict with the "alpha males".
There is no male conspiracy to keep women down. Natural selection itself is creating the bimbos, which men then stereotype against. This is an inescapable outcome because men will always outcompete women as a group.
Amongst a million other factors, biologically, men are stronger and more risk prone, while women are more risk averse. In other words, they're more proactive. It doesn't matter if that risk causes 99% of men to die in some manner, they're going to push more boundaries than the woman does, and the 1% that doesn't die is going to invent and do things the woman doesn't.
r0achtheunsavory, you have written an entire post about how you are the victim of feminism.
As a woman who has ticked off all the boxes on the road to achieving a full happy life (i.e. I am old and experienced in real life), I find it sad that you are a victim of feminism, that you have no control over your life, and that you are doomed to fail at every step.
I would like to know, why it is, that guys who buzzword bingo the language of 'newish' masculinity mope loudly over their divorce and trying to get out of child support when they have yet to find a girlfriend or have children.
As a powerful and experienced 'Fairy Godmother' I have done the most crazy projects (in a professional manner) with guys who, at a young age, had a vision for their life and themselves and could conceive of 'maximum effort' activities to educate themselves about the world and gain experience out in the wild. They were able to envision their best self and make a workback schedule of activities to get there. A lot of those activities will result in failure, and that brings with it much education. Never in those plans was there a 'RISK: feminists will eat my cake!' line item. And you know what, never in my life have feminists strolled into my life to eat my cake. Yet on a daily basis random men tell me on the internet that they will not read what I write because they think I am a feminist. So instead, they project all their fears of the world on me. It is tiresome for sure.
#NotAllMen waste their lives policing other men and women but #YesAllWomen are policed on a quasi daily basis.
If you think your manhood is the opposite of womanhood, you are just rendering your entire life force to something that you have no control over. Outside of the boogeyman of feminism, you are handing over your life to the people who have co-opted masculinity and femininity. Advertising, Movies and TV will make your life a living Hell with their ever moving consumeristic gender goal posts. You are being used by a system that thrives on conflict and hate for profit.
You obviously cannot read. My post discussed the misandrist behavior of feminists; the double standards and stereotyping they use while claiming to be against stereotyping. They're giant hypocrites. Your post had no coherent point and was not even related to my post at all.
Ah, so you have never known what feminism is to begin with. Good to know.
Do you think that if I wrote a book called "The Misandry of Feminism" that it would sell? It would mostly be about women hurting men's feelings but it seems like oppositional writing is doing really well these days, especially with very susceptible people.
You can find the entire history of feminism on Youtube. They all go like this: A crazed liberal arts lesbian walks up to a random man on the street that they don't even know and starts screaming made up words at them like "microaggression".
Everyone just stares at the screaming nutcase then ignores them. The feminist then becomes enraged, resorts to violence, and gets arrested and thrown into jail.
Hey Kat,
Thanks for the post. As a woman in Bitcoin who is everywhere, yet nowhere, in Bitcoin for 4 years now, I commend you. It's really hard to navigate a world of men so incredibly confused about women. I have been doing it for 25 years as the only women in male teams in engineering.
The best business advice I ever got was to stop shooting for 'break even'. Nobody ever succeeds by trying to break even and be completely equitable especially in a world filled with competitive corner cutters favored by the mediocracy. It kind of explains how feminism and women representation in all spaces including technology has a really hard time breaking 25%, and that's on a good day.
Yet, everywhere you look, there is evidence that balanced teams create better products and do much better financially in the long run.
Yet, we will always trip over boys staging a sit in against feminism when trying to go about our day of being kick-ass women part of a team that will remain 80-90% guys. Men tend to discuss feminism, femininity and women basing their critique on misconception, playing devil's advocate with zero skin in the game. It's completely useless, yet creates every day the exact same cascade of incredibly predictable comments.
There are much more men in technology that seek to shut down women who display independence, new ideas or opinions in our spaces than there are women in our spaces who advocate for other women. It a weird lopsided phenomenon.
I stopped being a visible 'woman in technology' advocate over 15 years ago because it seemed odd to convince women to enter tech where they would be abused by a system that is confused about non-men, doesn't want their opinion or contribution. Of course the toxicity of the space has only grown five fold and now it is simply very loud and vocal. Alter Eggos fill the well of hate and vitriol overflowing over our lives on a daily basis.
I am currently conducting a social experiment of boyhood. I am trying out the "bad guy hat" and seeing where that leads creatively. The "bad guy hat" is a mainstay of all medias aimed at boys. I don't like FPS games so i am doing this within a non traditional game. Women in society are never allowed to try on the "Bad guy hat" without massive push back. As an example, comments on your attire, looks, mannerism, RBF or 'smiling'! It's the same song over and over again. Be decorative. Support the male lead. Don't make waves. And, most of all, never make men feel uncomfortable for one moment, or it could lead to your demise.
Of course, on a personal basis, one-on-one, I have excellent relationship with key players in Bitcoin since the very beginning and I can be supportive in a more discreet manner. This will not always be the case so I retain personal physical protection and train bodyguards on the management of online-based hate and harassment. So call on me if you wish for help on this side of things.
I wish you good luck in your projects,
Eva
I suggest replacing "feminism" (both the term and the philosophy), as well as all the other social-justicey -isms with "individualism".
There are no women's rights. There are no racial rights. There are no gay rights. There are no religious rights. Rights are not for groups. Rights are for individuals.
I agree that's the ideal, but we're not there yet. Relevant Comic
And yet, many feminists are completely collectivist in their outlook.
Lots of women, lots of feminists, lots of opinions. Bottom line is we're not our stereotype, and the term feminism has a place in discussing issues specifically relating to women in the workplace, especially in the tech industry.
No true Scotsman, feminism is based on Marxist principles and promotes collective class action for the benefit of only that class. If you protect the rights of every individual you protect the rights of every group, every class and every community
Welcome, so glad to see feminist voices heard in crypto - it's rare and I want to see more of it!!!!
As the father of 2 daughters who I want to be fully engaged in 21st century tech, I hope the shit that @kato and @susanne have experienced can soon be a relic of the past.
@kato thanks for putting up this post! As a man living in a feminist ecovillage (www.dancingrabbit.org) I really love seeing women standing up for themselves like you are here. Upvoted and following you now.
Also, if you want to learn more about me you can check out my most introduceyourself post here: https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@nathanbrown/i-m-nathan-mackenzie-brown-chief-architect-of-one-of-the-most-successful-local-currency-in-the-us-a-professional-marketer
@kato Hi! I worked in tech for 15 years, still dabble in it and now in electronic music. I was a women's studies major in college.
This is a conversation about feminism and people are talking about glasses and makeup???? WHAT IN THE FUCK??????????
I think it's a bit disingenuous to act like the (first) world, in general (especially the Internet), is anti-feminist. The huge majority of the first world, and the huge majority of Internet users, are fairly liberal-leaning equalists.
It's not accurate to paint a picture that the world is anti-feminist, people try to hide from being feminists, and anybody who's associated with or accused of feminism gets threatened and run off because the world's just so darn anti-feminist. The world is actually very, very pro-feminist. Especially on the Internet.
However, because the internet is anonymous, it's also where anti-feminists go. Primarily because they have to be anonymous. The world forces them into the dark corners of the Internet. If you're anti-feminist in the real world, you're shunned. People lose jobs and marriages and kids over perceived misogyny. In fact, the Internet is one of the only places you find anti-feminists in any significant numbers.
The world today is very, very pro-feminist, and it's not accurate to paint a picture to the contrary.
I agree we've made progress with combating sexism, but we are far from being called "pro-feminist". @sussanna and I both gave personal experiences about working as a woman in the tech industry. A google search or a look through her comments section is riddled with other similar stories.
Women do get harassed and it's happening a lot in the tech workplace. Women do get harassed for posting about feminism online. I get horrible PMs all the time on my various sites.
These descriptions are accurate. It's what we live on a day-to-day life. We posted them here so you'd know about them. Maybe, even be compelled to do something about them (or at least be more aware of your own behaviors)
Please, don't silence us with "we're actually very pro-feminist now" Look at these comments above. Look at our experiences. We're not.
Just this year, over 10,000 people in the U.S. have been murdered. And we still have four and a half months to go. And that's just one country.
I'd still say that the huge majority of the world is anti-murder. Even if I read a post on Steemit detailing a family's grief over a particular murder.
Yes, sexism exists, but the world is very, very, very anti-sexist. At least the first world, anyway.
And I reiterate that the internet is one of the only places you're going to find huge numbers of anti-feminists. Because they're anonymous. People who espouse anti-feminist viewpoints in the real world get shunned. That's why they've ended up marginalized on the internet.
Then how come they're in both my and @sussanna 's workplaces (and SO many other women's in the tech industry)? They're not being shunned. We're posting to draw attention to our specific issue in our specific industry because it's something that impacts a lot of women.
Especially after this year, in the United States at least, I don't even think we can say we're anti-murder. The sentiments I've seen expressed over race and power this year just can't let me believe that.
I reiterate, I find huge numbers of anti-feminists in my industry. Other women around the world do too. Hopefully people seeing that we have these experiences on steem will cause people to think about their actions, or even better, take action.
I guess it really depends on where you think it's appropriate to draw the victory line.
You seem to feel that until we reach this theoretical idea of zero sexism anywhere, there's always a battle to be fought.
My position is that your battle is already won, and the last vestiges of your bitter enemies are sniping at you from the anonymous shadows of the internet and a few remaining clusters in isolated industries and backward places in the world. While out here in the larger real world, pretty much everybody laughs at and shuns actual sexism. Which is about as good as it's going to get. The world's on your side, you have a good job in a good industry despite being a woman, and you're spending a lot of energy being angry at the last 1% of the holdouts who aren't ever going to go away.
Replacing the hot-button issue of sexism with something like murder, what you're essentially saying is:
"If the world is generally anti-murder, like you say, then why do some people, like me and some of the people I know, still get murdered?"
I don't see a single person, even here under the anonymity of the internet, saying, "I agree with the people in your workplace and the assumptions they make. I don't think women can cut in in the tech industry because they're women and women can't do that kind of work effectively."
Essentially, the very worst things people are saying are: 1. Suck it up. Your experiences are the exception in a generally pro-female world; and 2. A lot of so-called feminists are downright crazy and giving the rest of you a bad name.
Nobody is saying, "Those behaviors that these women describe are just fine! Everyone knows that women can't do tech anyway!"
@archwinger:
Why can't we draw attention to an issue that would make the world more pro-feminist?
People in the real world do say this. All the time. That's why I wanted to draw attention to this specific issue.
If you just came to say "suck it up" then, no, I won't. It's not ok for women in tech to be treated this way.
She didn't shit on your label though, did she? And why ask anybody to assess any label?
I have my own way of dealing with labels, I cut them.
Come to Russia. Here all are equal.
This is something I enjoy about Russia, because education is provided equally and there is a lot of focus on sports and outdoor activities, it produces a more equal society. And it's more than that, because genders are less segregated in Russia throughout youth. Westerners make very embarrassing 101 comments about Russia because they are educated by a nationalistic media that needs a bad guy figure. It prevents all adult discussions about Russia and Russian culture. I am a bit of a wuss and reminded on a regular basis (by some KGB-trained badasses in my life) that Russians are not made from the same stuff that I, a pampered Queen, am. I have a hard time following so I make tea for the круг. But one day I will jump into the frozen lake... I am just waiting to do it while I am in Russia :)
It's so interesting that you say that. One of my colleagues is Russian, from a city about a hundred miles east of Moscow, and she says sexism isn't an issue back home.
A French Princess when I saw the strike of the workers asked why they are protesting. She said that the people want bread. What the Princess said - if they have no bread let them eat cake!
In countries where the law system already recognizes all people as the same, with equal rights, etc etc, what's the purpose of advocate groups for sexes, races etc?
I would understand such a political move in countries where the legal framework is different, but in states where equality is recognized by law it seems like there is no reason for it. It's a remnant (?).
The argument that feminism is simply "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." is false. Feminism like all the other social justice movements is at war with the free market. They are affirmative action activists and against being rewarded based on merit whoever or whatever you are. A perfect example of this is the Canadian prime minister and his gender balanced cabinet. He didn't choose the 15 women he did because they were the best people for the job he chose them because in his lisped words "It's 2015."
Sure the women he chose over men may be qualified as fuck, but some of them may have been less qualified than the men who were actually systemically discriminated against. Of course in government the less qualified the better, because the more the government fails the more they claim they need higher budgets. And fail they will and more money they will take.
In short I think it's time we all just became meritists and get along. Oh and in case I haven't triggered you yet, I think yer kinda hawt. ;P
Haven't you ever thought they treated you like that not particularly because you are a woman but because of what the chances are?
You're right. Sorry. By using this stereotype as an example, I helped perpetuate it. There are nothing wrong with these things.
For the record:
My pits are usually unshaved unless I need to wear a tank top because I live in Miami and I would smell bad as hell.
I wear my birks every day. I have some heels too. They're for when I feel like it.
I rarely wear makeup (probably twice a month) and when I do it's because I feel like it.
Shave/don't, birks/heels, bare/full-face paint. Up to you. Feminists can be anyone.
You made no real arguments, you just used this post for self-promotion and to attempt to guilt trip and bully people into believing your particular brand of nonsense. Your stories of injustice are very likely exaggerations or outright lies. Your use of "microaggressions" makes it very clear that you have an agenda. Nothing you've said rings true to 90% of the readers here.
You are definitely not a good person. If we could all ask your friends about you, they'd say that you're a histrionic and manipulative person with a superiority complex and a lack of empathy for others. Why not share your psychological diagnosis and current treatment regimen with everyone along with your self-promoting scam?
Congrats on writing a comment that has all the things.
Your comment is not really surprising, it's just denser with confirmation of the OP's point about people who inhabit our spaces.
You have to be a humanism before anything.
tagging yourself on a gender seperates your from the 50% of our world.
That isn't something a person should chose. Faminism Maninism Alienism what difference does it make?
There are assholes humans, and there are modest beings around us. Skip those that doesn't worth it, oblivion is the worst punishment and the most fitted for such individuals.
You are arguing for a "I don't see race" position in humanism. How do we talk about the human condition without paying attention the the chasm that separates different gender's experience of every day life? Feminism points out places in society where there could be equality between the genders. It took almost 100 years between the time white women got the right to vote and a woman is running for president. With all the anti-feminist rhetoric being plastered all over the web, most of it violent incomprehensible bile, you'd think feminists were very powerful in Western society. If you think that a person tagging themselves as a different gender, while producing description and critique of the world, makes them ineligible for your consideration, you may have redefined humanism for the ages.
do you think there are more or less chances here for womans? compared to men. pls this kind of retoric belongs to a previous century.
Well said. It's an important message to get across because "Feminist" as become the most loaded signifier in modern language; say "I'm a Feminist" and so many people think of the most extremist, nonsensical meaning of the term.
How could that have happened? Ask divorced men, men who didn't get a job because they were men, men who didn't get the job because 100% of the employees were women and woops quotas don't apply there, all the dead men at work or war that no feminazi gives two shits about, all the Islam hugging feminists, or the feminazis that want to ban everything and everyone criticizing their religion.
Plenty of reason it happened.
You are so stupid