I know I have been ranting but.......

in #steem7 years ago (edited)

There was one more things that I had to point out and wanted to discuss. We all want the whale to share the love and to make STEEMIT a happier healthy environment in which we can all thrive. I just have one issue when I see the complaints about whales not supporting minnow.

MINNOWS DON'T SUPPORT MINNOWS!!!!!!!!!!

I have been digging through hundreds of layers of data and I have come to the conclusion that if minnow upvoted, resteemed and commented on the post of other quality minnows there would be a much greater balance. Don't believe me, go into any category and click on the new tab. What you will see is a mix of both good and bad content neither of which is getting any interactions. Now go to the trending page, and see how many trash posts have hundreds of upvotes.​.

I say all that to say this. You can't complain of a broken system if you are partially to blame.

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You nailed it. The whales have a ton of power but there are enough smaller accounts that, if they got together, could really make an impact.

Sadly, when things start to go down (like the price of STEEM), smaller accounts stop posting. That is the time to start posting more.

The truth is the reward pool is structured in such a way that the author get 75% of the payout for a post. The Whales simply cannot post enough content to keep up with the post if tens of thousands of minnows and red fish put up 2-4 posts per day.

Those accounts would take a greater share of the reward pool, hence evening the SP a bit.

So we are on the same page. If you Look at any whale post, they have hundreds of minnow upvotes. That could have been used to help a fellow minnow, but nope lets give more money to the ones they complain about.

I have no problem when good content is being upvoted whale or not, but when its trash being pushed up. there is a serious issue.

You make some good points but I have seen posts where 2 or 3 minnows come together and upvote it and it earns $0. I try and help out minnows but oftentimes there is nothing I can do because if I upvote their post it is just a wasted upvote since I would not take them over the .02 threshold. I do try and educate them about the threshold though. I think that does help. I sure wish I had known about that sooner.

Cumulatively a difference can be made.

Yeah hopefully we can let more of them know about the .02 threshold so they can have more of an impact.

This is the same corporate world we are living in our daily lives and still blame. We are so hypocrites :(

I believe, as the cryptos mature so too will content. Of course we need efforts like this one, but solutions will be easier to implement.

I post like crazy when I see the price dropping.

It’s kind of funny.... for Curation Rewards you actually do much much better upvoting new unknown artists who create awesome new content. If you are the 1st to Upvote a small Minnow when they have posted incredible original content at the 15 minute mark and then a few whales Upvote after you then you make a lot of curation rewards. I have gone from zero dollars invested to $12,000 in 9 months using this strategy. It works.

I’ll keep that noted. Thank you.

Very interesting. I’m still new here. Posting a decent amount and building a steady following. I help where I can. Would you mind explaining how this works in simple terms that my dumb tiny brain can process? Lol

I guess I am the exception. I have tried to unfollow all whales - their content kind of sucks - and focus on upvoting and commenting on minnow posts. They tend to be much better because they actually seem to try. For now, I won't post my good stuff because I know it won't be seen and the upvotes won't even come to 2 pennies. Comments are my thing until I can get some steem power. Parley is also great for minnows and plankton like myself to help others, but tends to look like spam on the main steemit page.

You already knew about the threshold? I wish I had known a lot sooner.

I won't post my good stuff because I know it won't be seen

I know that feeling! But I do try and post some stuff. I've been doing a kind of experiment lately. I've posted a couple of longer posts and a few that didn't take much time to come up with, but I thought were funny. I had the same result in both cases.... Very little interest!

The only post that did get a bit of interest was one that was promoting someone elses work. (I think that was only because that person resteemed it!)

My last post took me a couple of days to put together. Yet, so far, very little interest when compared with other posts that must of taken someone all of ten minutes to put together and still hit the trending page.

All I can put it down to is the number of followers you have.

As you say... Parley seems to be the way to go. Build followers though comments, then once you have a reasonable following your posts will / should get more attention.

Or at least it might not seem like you're talking to yourself! :)

I have given in to the fact that I must use bots. I hate it but if I am going to give it any more effort than I would on Facebook - a more casual and relaxed outlet - then bots will have to be deployed. It sucks but Steemit requires power and money to be seen, in my opinion.

It sucks but Steemit requires power and money to be seen, in my opinion.

Ya, I see that myself. The trending and hot pages are full to bursting with posts that have practically paid to be there.

The sad thing is I can't see this platform growing unless us minnows get some attention too. I mean - how many people are gonna stick around posting their content if it just gets buried?

Few. I can't drag friends to the site. Once the ones who are approved sign in, and look around, they are gone. Landing on the trending page is certain to drive people away. Sad really because I think it is a great idea and I will stick around. It would be nice with some support from people I already know, though, like on all other social media. Strangers begging for upvotes and my pennies don't make it welcoming.

Well following whales isn't a issue, I follow some myself. The issue is that the minnow will only upvote whales and leave other minnows to starve.

True, I just got tired of the trash posts they were pumping out. Photos of them watching TV and earning $100 to $200 turned my stomach. I find minnow posts have been the most entertaining even though there are plenty of them taking selfies while watching TV.

@boboxer I know right!?!?! I bust my sad posting what I feel is killer quality content in my field (nerdy shit like Comics, toys,games, art) and it kinda sits. I’m getting a slow and steady following but man it’s rough seeing something I’m proud of wasted away while a whale posts dogshit and earns like a champ. Dems the breaks I guess.

I think the magic words to use in a post are crypto, steemit, and witness. LOL. If the title of the post has crypto in it, no matter what it is about, then you are golden.
I think it will pay off in the end but whales saying things like, "focus on quality content and you will get there" is hard to stomach when many of their posts - a pic of them eating a sandwich - are pure garbage but earning $ 300 to $400 in an hour. I guess it is Blockchain Trickle-Down Economics.

I do think that there is some merit to posting quality and the following will come buuuuuuuut I think its a loooooong drawn out process. it is highly frustrating to see exactly what you are talking about. even if you aren't interested in my topics....look at the type of stuff I'm posting up. I truly feel that it's pretty informative and good. look at some of my competitors. some of it is terribly weak stuff earning 10x what I am just because they have the followers. so strange. seems as though the bigger the base, the lazier the writer has become...not always but man....a lot of the times

You have quality posts. It is obvious time and effort are put into them. I don't get how they aren't getting attention. Your niche can't be small like mine will be so it doesn't make sense. I would like to know the demographics on steemit because they may provide some clues.

I can understand your position. Did it get a bunch of other upvotes?

Usually around 90+. Mostly minnows but a healthy number of whales from their school. Or is it a pod of whales? At any rate, I see little quality from whales but some excellent work by minnows. One is a water color artist. The best I have ever seen. Amazing talent. He is lucky to bring in $3 a post.

Pod I believe. And do you mind tagging him please.

@shibasaki. An incredible watercolor artist. People think watercolor is an easy medium - it isn't - and he is a master who teaches with his posts.

In my opinion you need both! Posting and commenting. If I do find a comment attractive, I will go to the commenters blog. If there are no recent or posts which I do find interesting there is no use to follow that Steemian. And this is just a chance lost to get a new follower.
But I do understand your viewpoints , I just want to present you a reason to keep on blogging yourself.
You got interaction with @crypto2crypto and your reply also interested me! But if you us to follow you, you should give us a reason to do!

I agree. As a new steemian it is tough to balance putting your work out there at the beginning, usually to be unseen, and building up a following.

What can be done??solution??

Simple more minnows supporting minnows

Absolutely true..
At the beginning everybody wants to make quick money. If you've not invested, the only way to make steem is to comment on posts.
I used to search the new tag and start commenting and upvoting people and earned close to nothing and left steemit. It's really discouraging because my posts were not earning anything.
But then I started to manage, I'm just commenting on the posts of my followers now. I don't care about the trending page, that's already broken.
And if I like what someone has to offer, I follow them whether it be a minnow or a whale.
That is the key you have to give half of the time to yourself and half of the time to the platform

That is a great strategy, stick to what you know is going to be good and upvote good content no matter the creators status

I intend to do that :)

That’s indeed what I try to do! Follow people who’s Content I like, and who has something useful to share.
And then, I comment and like on posts which I... like :-)

@rjunaid12 that’s kinda where I’m at. I’m sticking in my circles for the most part. At least for now. I’m definitely posting a decent amount. Trying to interacts and support those in my area. I’ve rarely expanded out to other areas yet. It will come but for now, it is what it is.

That's good man
Good luck to you

Thank you sir! You as well.

We all need to support each other.
I do blame this of the combination of human nature and the reputation.
People are not attracted ro read posts of people with a rep below 40.
There are in my opinion 2 reasons for this:

  • they think that is crapy content, otherwise the author would have a higher rep. Forgetting that this person could win the next Pullitzer price!
  • they related reputation with Steem power and think that they won’t get an upvote on their comment 🤔 Which is just pity because interaction matters, not the upvotes!
    I browse through the new section at least ince per day. Trying to find food articles and new people to follow!
    Just like a browse through the hot section.

You are right, most of us are breaking the system but as long as we try to interact with each other there is hope!

Interactions go a LOOOOOONG way. Trust me the more quality interactions that are had, the better the post will be. I follow a few bloggers and they have great post plus great interactions, so I always return for some good back and forth.

Even if you aren't upvoted, being friends shouldn't​ have a cost attached to it.

I don't interact to get an upvote, although I don't mind them, I do interact because I like it. I like to know how other people think, I like to learn new things but above all I like friendly banter!
Most people read the post, comment and move on! A big mistake in my opinion, sometimes some comments are real posts on there own! There are just missing in these case a chance to interact, learn and make new friends!
In my early days I didn't know the power of commenting, it is really underestimated!

Friendly banter leads to connections being made. Connections can lead to to things way bigger then Steem itself.

My OTC company came about via someone shredding a website I built for another company I own. He picked it apart and showed me everything I needed to fix. Never met in person, until we were signing papers gor our company.

It is true that opportunities are everywhere we just need to spot them!
Here on steemit and in the real world.
But it takes courage and daring to step out of the comfort zone. Trying to do this now within the company I am working for. Trying to set up a robotics department. It can burn me but I prefer to have tried and maybe failed then never tried at all!

I totally agree. I see so many new minnows get mad about not getting any whale upvotes but they don't upvote, curate or comment on anyones posts but whales posts? True value is growing to success with support from fellow minnows.
It bothers me that people think they should get huge votes after a short while on here.. I keep telling them that even the whales started off making no money on their posts too.. Its something that you have to work for, you have to create a good following with good posts and great comments.
I have been on here since aug 17' and I am finally starting to get a decent following. However, I curate at least 5-10 posts everyday. I try to reply to every comment I get and I still use monthly upvote services to get my articles seen. It's really a lot of work and everyone thinks they should be entitled to it! It drives me insane!

Very well said, the struggle of getting noticed​ had me put steem on the shelf for a whole year. Then i learned how to play the game and made the required investment to thrive.

The sense of entitlement is a the result of propaganda being presented incorrectly. Noone owes anyone a upvote or curation, but it is a nice good thing to do.

I agree. That's why I try to save my upvotes for accounts that get less that $10 per post. I never upvote anything trending.

Why not just upvote good content?

I can only upvote so many posts a day. If I have to choose (and I do) I would give my limited upvotes to the good content that I feel is underappreciated. They need my upvote more than good content that is trending.

On this point, i am 100% agree with. Minnows are running behind the whales, like they will give them the space to make a ground for them. But, the truth is- they not even notice you existence. If the minnows support other minnows, it will change the current flow of the community.
Please guys- start reading and try to evaluate which one is good. upvote it, resteem it, comment in it.
We do not need the whales, we can make our way to the top our own.
Whales are less than 10% of the community.
Other 90% is our and yours. Use the number in your favour.

I see the problem in the following way, suppose we are 100 MINNOWS that we contributed 0.01 $ for our vote if 100 voted for a good post we would contribute $ 1 to that post but we must take into account that we should only vote 10 post per day to not to destroy our voting power, that would leave 90 MINNOWS out of the votes and it is very likely that at least 40 of those 90 will post quality content, I think the biggest contribution we can give the MINNOWS is in the comments

This is a common problem.

Now here on Steemit, we want good content to gain a reputation. A reputation that has been tainted by some in the crypto space.

So what happens when an out of work writer, artist or developer has something to say and no Steem to push it. Sadly they must hope a whale sees it. Minnows may appreciate the information, but since the number of votes do not matter, why even bother.

Thus, good content creators must turn to effort like @crypto2crypto. Thanks and thank you
@hendersonp as well for the inspiration.

Hmm very good point

I agree mate , the while system is like broken.

  • the bot thing even if it is a trash, bot has got them trending
  • yup surely know the fact that minnows dont support each other too,knowing the fact that their upvote value aint that much but no.s Can make it work.
  • if whales wud have been showing love people would have been working alot to create quality content ....

That is what Dan said ,that is why probably switched to Eos ....

Well if you want to changing people far from you, it starts by changing the people closest to you.

Minnows don't support themselves, they all only interested on what they can get from others and not what they can give. We don't read the post of minnows, we go after whales only and when we see that the whale don't have good content, we still upvote the post and drop comments just for the whale to notice us. MInnows can be stronger if we support each others to grow.

You call it a rant my dear friend. Where I come from we call it truth talkin. People call it a rant nowadays because it's a way of distancing themselves from something they don't want to hear about, normally because it sheds negative light on them, and all the while it gives the"ranter"a possible negative image. But as I spoke of earlier, if anybody is going to get anything done there has to be action. So I only have one thing to say, whether you call it a rant, truth talkin, or action I say keep it coming. Throughout our history, so many times the voice of one man has moved thousands to millions of people to action. We all have a part. For right now I provide games and a place for newbies to come to regularly. You are a voice, and you are knowledge, AND you're not afraid to speak the truth. That gives you a potential VERY BIG roll. So I say, keep being that voice and knowledge and Truth.

Im Just a regular guy trying to help. I doubt I will be seen as anything more.

Martin Luther King Jr was also just a regular guy too, until one day. He had a dream.
Just saying my friend. Inside of every person in a key that unlocks a door to change the world. All we have to do is find it and learn how to use it.

Sorry to double reply but I'm so excited about this one, and I wanted to tell you. I recently heard about dust votes and how votes that only cast $0.02 don't get paid. so I was able to scrounge up enough money and change to put in my bank and dumped into SP, so look what I got to do this morning.
Screenshot_20180503-085941.png

I GAVE MY FIRST $0.03 UPVOTE!!!

However, I can't take all of the credit. I am currently delegated 100 SP. But it made me feel great.

That’s freaking awesome man. Congrats.

I've only been on here a few months and like you say there is alot of great content relatively unoticed. I definitely found following has helped make my feed more to my tastes but there are still alot of posts that are either just a bit click baitey and/or seem kind of dialed in. Like alot have said the trending pages are not representative of the best of the best that Steemit actually has to offer. You have to be willing to plough through the sheer volume of stuff to find people that are making a real effort with their posts, follow them and hope they don't give up and leave as they are not seeing a return on their efforts

If we had a better search function it would greatly improve the experience.

Yes. Interest based groups in Discord are good but would be nice to have that aspect more integrated to Steemit

Most minnows do seem to favor upvoting whale posts in large numbers...hoping to catch an upvote of their own I suppose! It's certainly not for the curation rewards. Since it's harder to be seen among hundreds of other votes...it's not really the best strategy. At least when minnows support minnows we can use strength in numbers to show our appreciation and of course there is the opportunity to gain a real following. Real connections are more likely to ultimately lead to lasting upvotes down the road. The kind that can be relied upon...versus waiting for a surprise whale to show up.

If we start seeing honest no strings attached interactions, watch this place bloom.

I am with you. I know being able to organize my blog content and favorites with categories would help. I believe Hivemind will impliment something along these lines. There are just times of frustration, but when you can bookmark someone and come back to them to see what they are really all about, that makes a difference sifting through all the minnows.

Agreed, I think we still have a issue of the platform being to bare bones.

Well written dissolve of just one of the many "centralized" components of Steemit - Never was am equal chance for equal ownership or attainable ownership - Now there undoubtedly will never be again - Whales on Steemit are the top 1% of society in terms of wealth. They will never ever be worried about their title either in my opinion

Dont be to sure about that. distribution of wealth can change very quickly

That is sad but pretty true my friend. All minnows just try to follow the big whales who already have tones of small minnows following them and would blindly just upvote their posts. It is the same system as in real world. Some hard working agriculture person would be suffering and people would just worship the rich guy selling trash.

Samh ISH different​ toilet.

How about we make a special tag for this. All minnows may maintain at least 90% voting power and invite someone to post in the tag with quality content. We should plan something about it.

Hmmm interesting

Hi @crypto2crypto ive been on steem since February and tend to use my upvote power mostly on comments that people leave on the blog posts i create.
A while back i found a tool called steemspectacles that's really useful to me, it tells me my most loyal followers in upvotes, I've figured that if they love my content and take the time to upvote my posts then i will normally like and upvote their articles and probaly follow them too.
I seldom look at the trending page, but a few of my posts do hit the trending page theirs two on #walkwithme of mine there from this week, so i can vouch its not all crap up there, i know where your coming from in your article though 😊

Thanks I’ll def use this

I just spotted your last blog post saying you've just reached 1000 followers 😊
You have one more now, and that's me 😊
Wishing you a great day

Thanks buddy and hope you enjoy the content.

I got your point. I don’t think the issue is with whales not supporting minnows. I think the issue is in whales who abuse their power.

Well wouldn't it make sense to stop giving them extra power?

I agree with you however the minnows as a whole are putting out more content than whales meaning they will get more rewards so in due time they’ll start making money. I have picked out 30 or so that I know will write quality content so I rarely go check out what the new guys have to say

you never know what new guy is posting amazing content though.

yea I just don’t have the time to check it out. Although I should.

I say all that to say this. You can't complain of a broken system if you are partially to blame.

My #1 rule on steemit “never complain!”

This post hits me hard. I have only joined last week and know so little about how steemit works. I have been upvoting some quality minnow posts, but most of the time I upvote whales' posts.

At least you have pointed it out. I am in this for the community as well anyways. Time to support fellow minnows. Thanks for this.

We live, learn and do better. Now that your eyes are open, help a friend out.

I don't support irrelevant or cheap post but as a minnow, whatever I did... long well thought out articles that take a couple of hours to write.... volumes of quick and light hearted articles... My content was visible for may 20 to 40 seconds before they sank under the weight of the huge volume of content created every second.
Yeah.... it was frustrating........ It was a bit better, but I is still no fun to be a minnow.

And what was I doing wrong? Well.... nothing!!! I and countless other minnows are doing everything right? My content was simply just not seen.... I am still too small at this stage... and there were too many that are much bigger.... It's like a normal person with normal savings trying to start a casino in Las Vegas and trying to get a percentage of the proftis to be had!!

I was in this boat as well, I really didn’t understand how it worked. Once I found out I made the investment in the platform

Hmm.. I think so..

Yes I agreed with your words, Minnows should do hard and also help each others. but I see including me we always depend on whales and do upvote on the posts of whales and comment there to attract them just for upvote. greediness is involved in our nerves so we should try to change this scenario. and minnows should always upload at least 1 or 2 posts daily and help each other to boosting. any way thanks @crypto2crypto for awaking post for minnows and red fish.

Makes so much sense right, but hard to execute

A very good point. Which is why I don't often bother visiting the trending page. I made the mistake of visiting the page yesterday and some idiot had boosted a post about skin cream to trending. It was one of the worst articles I have ever read and yet there were a shit tonne of minnows commenting and voting on the post as if it were some golden piece of quality authorship.

People need to start seeking out quality material instead of relying on the trending page as a gauge of what a quality article looks like.

And these same minnows will leave great post empty

Indeed, it's a tough topic. There are plenty of people who have called on all Steemit users to make at least 10 quality comments a day as a way to make sure we're all engaging with each other. I suppose it's hard to encourage so many people to do that now that we're heading towards 1 mil users on the platform. But still, you'd think engagement would be picking up as a result of the increased users. I guess the trending page is just too easy to rely on.

Okay how did I missed this post. Epic rant! LOL!

Was a long day yesterday lol.

I know the feeling

Man I totally forgot to ask you about the delegation. Is it still open?
I have almost fulfilled all the criteria and need to resteem just one post to complete it. I am looking forward to another post from you to sweeten my blog page :-)

Resteemed this puppy. Hopefully others read this and the comments. Lots of useful good info here.

Thank you my fiend.

anytime! thanks for the good quality content. debate worthy...that's for sure!

I support redfish and I'm one myself. I just posted to adopt a redfish and have been looking and still not much- we'll see. I onboard using Twitter too. But I think for the most part you're right.

It is a journey for sure, I hope you grow quickly in this wierd platform of ours.

I totally agree. I also think instead of focusing on getting a whale vote it is better to focus on growing and building your own micro-community. I am friends with several whales that earned that titled and didn't buy it and that is the one thing they all have in common they have built their own micro communities.
So focus on bring those you know to the platform and find people you have similar interests with that already use the platform. Post and comment daily and anyone can slowly grow into a whale themselves.

great point you made in bringing folks to the platform. that's what I'm trying to do as well. friends and family. it is hard though...a few things hurting it is the long wait time to be approved. I have 4 friends and my wife that have signed up...my wife is on 2 weeks now waiting for that email. they need to fix that shit asap. that's a big turnoff. I hype up the idea and platform and then folks are waiting to get on...losing interest. but I think if that is fixed and people can get on right away that could help. also maybe a referral system? something to reward bringing new users here? ill also say this, ive spent a lot less time on facebook since ive been on here the last month.

i agree we minnows should support and help eachother and help them to make it better for them so that they might not find it unuseful, they should be given full support and they shouldn't loose hope 😊

You are very correct @crypto2crypto.
We are all guilty over this.
The change has to start from us.
Thanks for this post

You have a minor misspelling in the following sentence:

We all want the whale to share the love and to make STEEMIT a happier healthy enviroment in which we can all thrive.
It should be environment instead of enviroment.

Mi primera semana en steemit sentía que apoyaban mis comentarios, esta es mi cuarta semana pero ya parece que no recibo upvotes por mis comentarios nisiquiera por mis post :-(

You have said it all, I think if these continue like this, it is not going to help the steemit platform because myself at a point, I felt tired of being neglected, and started feeling like I was brought to the platform based on lies, when they said it was good and all I see is neglect, I hope it changes.

hopefully we will see change soon.

Well time IS money after all. It is hard to find and curate good content here with a constant flow of fluff material and spam articles. I hate the posts that people make in 10 seconds by throwing up one picture and a sentence!

If there was a better way to sort and organize posts then maybe the quality content would be easier to find and earn more rewards.

I wish we had a search function that wasn’t all out of whack

what cane be done? pleased suggest

Thats a huge thing but no body care about you!
It would be great to see minnows supporting minnows!
I belong to pakistan and many of my country fellows don't know how to use steemit properly, they are just spamming around,playing the game of upvote for upvote, when ever i see somwone doing this, i tried my level best to tell them that this ain't gonna work here!
Here you need to build relation through commenting them you should start focus on posting your content!

Thanks!

very true , also go through the new feeds and give other minnows advice so they can get better.

First week Steemit Minnow here :)
What you are laying down sounds like the truth my man.

So I'm going forward with that intention, to heavily engage with others like me who are actually bringing some real human content in.

The more minnows that post, the more working class Steemians will get part of the reward pool Simple math!

Hello there !

I feel sorry for those communities and I just wanna share it isn't always the case.

In the French community we all support each others and we see our community growing again and again.

So please, keep spreading the word we need to support our own categories as it will definitively allow Steemit to growth and be the plateform we want to have in the future !

Have a great day,
Laurent

Very well said... If you can't support others now, when you get there, you will be worse.

I'm with you. I believe Hivemind will have some impliment along this line. When you can bookmark anyone and come back to them see to see what they really are all about, that makes a difference in sifting through all the minnows.

upvoted and resteem

The question is, if those are real accounts. I clearly could see somebody, just using autoupvote for whales, dolphins and whatever is still above minnow and plankton, to get an slice of the curation reward pool.

But i got your point, if a crowd of planktons like me,would help each other out with upvotes, we would have some impact on each other on the long run.
I people don't look at this the right way in my opinion, they see the money aspect but not the social network aspect. That's why they take the wrong approach towards some stuff regarding steem.

This perpetuating the issues as hand.

Yes ... very good points. I try to Upvote the really great artists here on a Steemit.... and there are a lot of them.

I don't agree that the system is broken.
It's like bitching about the trash not carrying it self out.
gotta do something to get something.

Couldn’t agree more

Appreciate you my friend. Do please help each other. Thanks

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