When I was a teenager, I used to be deeply fascinated with old English comedy. I think it's fair to say John Cleese was my first love. And among the things I used to watch, as a deeply geeky, kinda in-my-own-world person of 15 or so, was a show called "Bottom", created by the inimitable Rik Mayall and Ade Edmondson. And it was about this desperately uncool duo whose sole desire in life was to get some action. Much of the show revolved around their tragic ill-fated attempts at wooing, including the debut, where the two characters spray themselves with "sex pheromones" and try to lure women into bed.
Give in. Give in to your cravings. Do as you are bid. You cannot help yourself. Come back to my place because we're going to have it oooooffffff.
Well. This happened to me earlier. I kid you not. I'm generally quite friendly and encouraging of men who have the courage to ask for a girl's number out in real life. With all this online dating nonsense, coupled with the #metoo scares, a lot of guys are simply too put-off or scared to try to approach a woman IRL. So I was out shopping, and this cute guy came and asked for my number, which I gave. I chatted with him a bit and so on. Thought he was a bit forward, but I figured you know, I'm safe, responsible, and no harm done just chatting with someone. We continued texting for a bit, and out of the blue he starts asking these rather personal sexual questions.
I told him as much, and he actually replied
You have some sort of barrier about yourself. I don't see why. You should give in to your cravings. Give your body what it wants.
I cringe just typing this. Honestly, though, it was one of the funniest things I've heard in pick-up in a long time. Naturally, it was buh-bye from that point on, but it stayed in my head. For one, that something that was satire 30 years ago is now actually considered okay by some people. I mean, before today, I didn't wanna imagine there's people like Rik and Ade's characters.
For another thing, I wanted to know...does that shit actually work? I mean, would it work on you? Or do you know anyone who, upon receiving that type of message, would be like alrighty then, off we go? I should hope not.
It's amusing, but also kinda sad. I've never been a fan of this hook-up culture, but for a while, I went along with this "you do you" vibe. That's the story, everyone's free to do as they will, and you're not allowed to judge or shame anyone. Mostly, I'm on board. First, I don't care what you do in your private life as long as it includes consenting adults. Secondly, I realize some of my own life choices might've been looked down on, or ostracized in previous eras, so I'm not quick to shame or judge someone.
But this is endemic. By now, I've ran into my fair share of guys out for a good time, no strings attached. Interestingly enough, a lot of these men seem to be a little older. Oddly enough, guys my own age often seen more interested in an actual relationship, whereas guys 30+ (this store guy was 38) seem to be increasingly infantile, and fickle.I wonder why that generation in particular, or if it's a thing, at all.
Anyway, I'm not someone to tell them to live different. And yet, I can't help but feel we are somehow endorsing this as a society. Everything goes, in our world, and maybe to our own peril. It used to be that womanizers and "easy women" were a little looked down on by society. Not in the olden days when they branded you for screwing the wrong person, but even in the last century. There used to be a little shame associated to that.
It put me in mind of a brilliant article by Lionel Shriver (possibly my favorite author of all time) arguing that shame has a role in our society, namely to discourage dangerous/bad behavior. My grandfather was a notorious womanizer (though I daresay he had some class), and it never discouraged him that people thought poorly of that sorta thing. I don't think it would, if you really wanna act on it, you know?
But now, not only is it no longer discouraged, it's accepted as a seemingly valid lifestyle. Your focus on your job and you screw around to feign the genuine human connection you need. Isn't that a little robotic? And in a society that already seems hell-bent on destroying the family, and interpersonal bonds as a whole, I wonder if this whole casual dating thing isn't by design.
A society where the family no longer exists is a society where man has nothing to protect, other than his own material fortune. A man with nothing to protect is a man easier to control and subdue.
Not just men, obviously, but this is a truth that somehow goes ignored in our society. Now, you're encouraged to...
...have fun. You deserve it.
...give in to your most animalistic cravings.
...screw around. Men have been doing it for years.
...be selfish in bed. Your satisfaction comes first.
...don't like 'em? they're easy to replace!
These, to me, are sad ideas to be passing on to new generations. They are also poor values to be condoning, since many of them actually serve as patches for trauma. Having difficulty establishing intimate bonds is a sign of trauma, yet this society, rather than support these people in getting the help they need, is telling them that's a valid lifestyle choice and they should roll with it.
Last year, I briefly dated this deeply messed-up guy. You could tell. He'd suffered severe abandonment as a child, and he wasn't quite right emotionally. Lived this sort of lifestyle, and his difficulty in trusting/forming normal bonds with people were evidently trauma-linked. Yet, when I stopped seeing him (not being someone interested in that kinda world), he was genuinely surprised. Why? What could possibly be wrong with his lifestyle?
That's the sort of thinking our society enforces, and it's kinda scary to me. Funny supermarket encounters aside, I do think our views on life, love and dating are perilous ones, aimed not at strengthening but at weakening our society. And it's our role to guard that, to protect our families, and our shared community.
Interestingly, a lot of my personal psychological exploration has been coming back to connection, community, and the invaluable support of social bonds. Social bonds that the string-free individual is inevitably without. Strong, liberated new world?
I think not.
I agree 100%!
I spent about five years giving chemical spirituality the best run I could give it with the money I could throw at it…and I was a freshly released vet at the time, so there was a healthy pile of cash (gone now I assure you!)
Anyway, later did mindfulness, meditation, breathing and more of the same mind expanding exercises but without the chemical modifiers to assist (or detract). Anyway, yeah I was always looking for some kind of spiritual release/dissimilation, but at every breaking point I saw that what matters most is simple, it’s healthy. It’s community, it’s family, it’s service to others and joy that comes from spreading joy. All that other shit is just there to help us create our own hell on earth which, does often feel good at the onset, but in my experience always leads to pain and suffering.
Anyway I really loved reading this, mostly I think maybe cuz I’m hoping my two girls will be as smart as you when they’re out there making decisions for themselves :)
I'm glad you found your way to those. The answer, it seems, has always been in our culture, in one way or another, we've just lost it along the way. These breathing/meditation techniques are nothing new, yet they're more healing than all the drugs in the psycho system (and there are many). So I really am happy for you.
<3 100%. Healthy is what it is. Though it seems to me it also requires a shift in perspective? With the right mindset, you can derive pleasure, I've been shocked to find, in the simplest household tasks. Or you can resent and bitch about them, as you go, and make everyone (yourself included) miserable. So once again, mind.
Aw, thank you <3 I enjoyed your perspective, as ever. And I'm sure with you for a dad, they'll be just fine <3
Man, shit, I like you a lot.
To the first comment, I agree, nothing new under the sun…but also, I have to frame my experience as someone awake and sentient in the age of Aquarius…we’re just in one of the early waves I think (and hope) ;)
But yeah, breath and spiritual work I think was once far more commonplace…we’re in the age of burgeoning awareness, and I’m not double-checking to make sure I used that correctly :)
To your second comment, that’s where my YESSS!! Comes from. I forget to do it maybe as often (or more so) than I remember, but that’s part of the art of living, I guess? I try to use all the chores that come my way as an opportunity to be mindful. Still I also avoid the toxic positivity that @fenngen has been talking about; …I think the Buddhists were right to call it “walking the razor’s edge,” and most the time I’m cutting my fingers and hanging from the blade - but I wouldn’t want to change what’s right to accommodate what’s me.
Back at ya, my friend :D
Toxic positivity is definitely a thing. For me, for a while now, it was what was putting me off all this mindfulness, meditative, "be water" stuff. I'd get a good few days of being all kumbaya and chill, and then I'd just snap, get nasty, and embrace all the little "mean" things I'd been trying to keep away. And it felt good.
Now I'm seeing it's not about that at all. It's not about going around with a big dopey smile on your face all damn day. That realization makes it a lil easier.
There’s really been a hell of a lot of awesome posts in this community let me tell you! Thank you for dropping this gem here!
I think we have certainly gone pretty far afield when it comes to getting rid of morals and decency. Getting straight to the point that the guy did without even beating around the bush about it is absolutely wild. It’s also pathetic if you ask me. Shouldn’t those things be something we learn as we go? Rather than just jump right into the bottom of the pit, take a stroll around for fun and the scenery? It’s sad that it occurred that way, honestly.
I think this is absolutely a product of the widespread cultural Marxism that’s been burning like a gas-fed fire. It’s really crazy that we’ve become so hedonistic as a society that this shit occurs and in regular conversation rather than 9 months into a dating relationship.
I am hopeful that we can change the ship, get it back on the right course and I’m not talking of such from a moral high ground that is above others and reproach the way so many people think today. This petulant child way of thinking of things, that we should be allowed to get down to every whim and nobody can tell us otherwise is foolish. It’s the removal of the adults from order when you think about it. A group of elementary children, when left to their own devices without adult supervision will often just satisfy their whims regardless of the consequences because they don’t know any better. It seems like we are at that point right now and it’s scary and unnerving.
I’m hoping that the things I am teaching my son, and the way I try to impart knowledge and things on kids around us when they are there is going to have an impact on them so we can change the direction we are headed in now. As builder said, when men don’t have a family or prospects for obtaining one and have nothing else to do, that’s a dangerous recipe.
Hi! Thanks for checking this out! :D
I wondered the same. The event itself was far less interesting to me as the realization that people genuinely don't know/ignore these social basics.
100%. I recently finished John Kim's I Used to be a Miserable Fck*. In it, he makes a lot of distinction between what men behave like, and what boys do. I've been using it to examine my own interactions, and categorize between adult and child behavior. It's fascinating, but tiring. It's time to let the adults in charge now.
I've no doubt it will. It starts with teaching future generations the right values. That it's, as you so beautifully put it, worth taking in the sights. :) I appreciate this lovely comment. Thank you.
It just so happened, I got to read your post the minute you posted, I wanted to make a comment rightaway ,2 hours passed and I still didn't...'cause I'm just like that, I wanna say much but it comes out crazy and now I lost the thought...Soo,don't rush to get old!
If you were born in a redneck/hillbilly county you wouldn't have any of this issues,you would already be married to your cousin and have 2,3 kids, bypassing all this trouble...😃
How do you know it comes out crazy if you don't say it? :) Don't judge yourself too quick, my friend, 'cause the world's full of people willing to do it already. If you're not on your side, then who do you got? ;)
I am definitely not rushing to get old
(you're not old). Or married (to a cousin or otherwise). Yeah, I guess that's a point, though I'd probably have other issues, like VD from my deadbeat hubby screwing around with a goat or smtng. Problems, problems :)Like C.K. use to say: White people's problems.
The goat? I daresay not all white people xD I hope.
I don't think shame prevents wrongful behavior. In fact, I think more often than not, it lies at the core of depravity, because people who have a lot of shame can't be vulnerable and therefore have a hard time being honest. That guy you encountered, for instance, probably thinks that he was being sincere, when in fact he was just playing a character to conceal his own vulnerability.
When I was younger (I'm that guy's age right now,) I used to think that I was messing up by not acting like all the other men I knew, striking up conversations with women in the street or engaging in flattery. It always made me uncomfortable. Then I realized that it wasn't me, the entire thing was systemic disrespect and I understood it contravened my upbringing and principles.
I've seen these attitudes less and less over the years in my city, probably because of the reality I've crafted for myself. I guess different places experience changes at different rates.
Thanks for this post!
I totally agree, I have met a lot of people like this who want to fit into the 'norms' but it's easy to see they're only playing a role. If we can all be sincere and more vulnerable, the dating world won't be so hard.
Loved this post @honeydue
I agree, I'm sure he was. But I wonder what the healthy approach there is. It's tempting, but ultimately a trap to think oh I can help this person be themselves/more vulnerable/more authentic. Usually, people can only be helped when they wanna be. So it's tricky. I genuinely don't know how one's supposed to proceed in such encounters :D
Thank you @wolfofnostreet (what a cool name!). I'm glad you resonated~
I wasn't lauding shaming other people (nor was it the case for the article I mentioned). Just saying we shouldn't be so quick to liberalize and endorse everything that flies in the face of previous centuries just because they were oppressive and nasty, also.
Oh, I'm sure he was. I have a lot of compassion for these people, and I wish I was in a place to help them. Right now, though, I am more focused on my own journey, setting my own boundaries and carving a healthy, balanced life for myself. So as far as I'm concerned, they can play whatever character they want, I just can't be a part of the masquerade.
I applaud that. Both for being true to yourself, and for owning your truth and values. That's not always easy, is it?
I think this plays an important role. I used to attract quite a lot of messed up character-playing people. I didn't see it at the time, but I was very messed-up myself (which is why I never played the "why am I only attracting creeps" card). Rn I'm just focused on crafting that reality, as you said, in the hope of attracting people who do resonate.
And I didn't say all guys in their 30s are like that :P Thank you for the thoughtful input ~ I enjoyed it!
I admire you for giving out your number to a strange guy. It's NEVER the kind of thing that I do.😆
I appreciate a womaniser who is not pretentious, simply because I don't like someone who lives a double life and suddenly becomes self-righteous when shit hits the fan... Although I understand that decent guys might be a little sceptical in approaching women these days.
Some legitimate questions here, and views that are all worth examining. 🙌
He seemed nice, I don't do it that often, either. I've played the "oh, sorry, my boyfriend wouldn't like that" card more than I can remember, but I try to give people a small chance (esp when they don't seem weird) xD
Oh completely. If you wanna be that guy, say so. Lying only makes everything worse. Thanks for dropping by, my dear <3
I read this post and trust me friend, I've not read anything so agreeable in a long time. There's so much wrong in the dating/relationship system of today, we'd talk for days if we have to get to the crux of it. And we still may not at the end of the day.
Where I come from, you can't even tell a guy how you're doing when he asks because said guy sees it as a plot to "bill him"(ask for money) which is not all their fault since there's a lot of things like this rampant now.
But then again, guys are being taught to be selfish. They are taught that if she's not your sister or your mom, I see no reason why you should spend a dime on her. But you supposedly "love" this person.
There's a lot of manipulation also. Guys that try to guilt trip you and manipulate into doing things and being who you're not cause they are attaching some sorry story of their traumatic childhood. The world is crazed I tell you. It makes no sense at all.
I have a different perspective on the dating scenario... I live in the forest and my life rarely has new social encounters so I've helped myself out to trying dating apps. I've met a few interesting people with whom I still talked but neither I found them to be so interesting as to step out of my comfort zone to make them a part of my life, nor did they find in me the kind of partner they wanted in their life.
We gave it a shot, didn't really work out, still talk with respect and honesty. I don't really see the harm. Not everyone wants to live in the forest, and I certainly don't want to spend too much time in the city. I mean, it would have to be some kind of mindblowing magical encounter that I value too much to neglect my relationship with Nature on its behalf.
In a way, you could argue I prioritize my job over these emotional connections (though my job does not consist on hoarding money), and I'd say you're right. I want to live a life in what feels like a good relationship with the Nature surrounding me, but I still want to have fun and be able to meet people without approaching them with commitment in mind. Commitment, I believe, will be spontaneous when I encounter someone who shares similar values and we also have a physical attraction that pulls us to that kind of union. Until then, I will meet people and enjoy myself, learn from the experiences, and let go of the expectation that they can fill whatever void I still haven't filled.
The selfishness in bed is pure ignorance, it's actually a lot more fun and pleasurable if the enjoyment goes both ways. Once you've experienced that, it just feels very lame to be selfish.
As for replacement... we're all replaceable until we aren't.
Wow, almost wrote a whole post to reply this, so I guess thanks for the inspiration lol
More power to you. I agree, you can meet some wonderful people on apps. It's not that I'm against, just that, from my perspective, they've stripped dating of romance and effort, and to me, that seems sad. Now, one can flirt with a potential partner while on the toilet, and that's a wee bit nasty to me.
There isn't one, as long as everyone's content. The harm only appears if either they tried to change your lifestyle, or you tried to change theirs to suit your own. Other than that, to each his own happiness. It's excellent that you've found something important and valuable, and a system of prioritizing the things in your life. Many don't.
I think you're right, and hope you find that :)
Thanks, you as well if you desire it :)