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Good evening @homeedders I hope you're having a fantastic time and haven't lost more hair trying to educate the lil ones.
Tonight I have a question for the group and seeking some advice. See, I'm a bit of a night owl. Well infact I don't know if I have insomnia or if I just can't sleep. But I don't sleep much, I often fill my nights with training. I train so I can eat more food. I looooove food.
But I've been trying to get my little one into a routine as such. Going to bed early, but I can't. She always wants to chill and stay up with dad.
It might sound bad, but she will be in bed until 9am and has never really woken at 5am or 6am like I hear the complaints from many other parents.
The other night I tried to get her to go to bed, so she crafted away to sneak into the garage and watch me train. She usually plays around and does some training too. Her lil 8 month old brother currently has 0 sleep pattern so he usually chills with me in the garage while mum catches some zZzZzZz
Truth be told, I don't really care, but I have been reading about the importance of routines. Does staying up late count as a routine?
I secretly like it, if she's up until midnight as I am usually up until 1 - 2am she won't wake up until 10 - 11am sometimes. This gives me plenty of time to smash out some work in the home office.
So parents, I am after your wisdom. What are your thoughts and what should I do?
Hey bro, that's totally normal, we had the same issue with the 3 kids but we learnt our lessons.
Kids love routine, they love patterns, and it's so important to sleep train them as quickly as possible.
3 years ago, we started going put them in bed earlier and earlier, up until starting the food, bath routine at 7pm. Of course they only fell asleep around 830 or even 10 sometimes but it's important for them to understand that now is the time to chill. We aren't perfect though so don't beat yourself too much, none of them could fall asleep without being rocked the first 2 years of their lives, we tried the "sleep training" the harcore way by leaving the baby in the crib and closing gently the door, but it always ended up with a lof of crying and no sleep, our last one likes to make herself vomit as retaliation by putting finger down her throat, hardcore shit.
I am gonna let my wife @lionmom tag in because she knows how much we worked on this. It's so much easier since they have their own room though, when we were all crammed into one room, nobody was sleeping hahaha. It took 3 years for their sleeping habits to be imbedded in some sort of pattern.
Also, for their pineal gland and circadian rhythms, they do need that sunlight, the light getting them awake around 7 to 9am is the only way to get them sleeping at 830 or 9pm.
Then again ,everyone is different, so don't listen to other parents on the internet, most of them are lying anyway haha
That's great advice, our struggle is our own routines too. My wife is a nurse and I work a few jobs. One being Emergency Management and often deployed to situations.
We don't have routines ourselves as it is shift work, or if work is busy then work hours are long. We try to maintain dinner time at the same time each day for stability.
But it has been very hard
Wow, yeah, you guys have hectic lives, don't listen to a guy that has his own timetable.
Also, the other thing that works that I completely forgot, the bath routine just before the bed time. It does marvels. A little bed time story, a kiss on the chick, et voila!!!
Yeah bath time a little while before bed seems to do a pretty good job of getting them down.
!ENGAGE 40
ENGAGEtokens.Hahah that's some brutal stuff, forcing herself to vomit! Sometimes the kids seem like little demons, don't they?
We are going through the similar 1 room thing. Our condo is pretty small so one bedroom is now the office for my wife and I, the other bedroom is for sleeping and the living room has been converted into a sleep and play area lol. You end up working with what ya got though, so we do what we can!
Our son has been a bit all over the cycle but thankfully has seemed to level off and get to sleep and wake up around the same time every day now. He does love his sleep though, going to bed between 8-9 and he will sleep until 8 or 9 the following day! It makes for some hours on either end of some peace and needed adult time lol. Been using the extra time on most days to try and learn things!
She is a master manipulative that doesn't give a fuck. A minute later she is normal like nothing happened and smiles, like a serial killer. I love her though haha
My second album is sung very "whispery" especially because the kids were sleeping next to us lol.
Yeah we end up going to bed at 4am, I do recording after 9pm when everyone is sleeping. Adult time like drinking and...Other things have to happen when we sure they are all sleeping and in REM phase, cause...They walked out on us
To quote Conor Mcgregor, no excuse not to learn things "We all have the same 24 hours in a day"
What I keep trying to tell my wife, that's what adults with kids have to do! Will never be perfect time so gotta enjoy what you can, when you can. Better when they are younger then when they are 10 years old and remember lol.
I love and need my sleep too much to go to bed at 4 am lol my days of that stuff are long gone! 11 is usually the latest I'm in bed most days. Last night it was 815 hahaha. I've been slacking the past 3 or 4 days on learning coding but I'm hoping to spend some time getting back into a much better rhythm today. That's an interesting quote indeed, because some never end up learning anything outside of their box. To each their own though, some have a thirst for knowledge, others just like to achieve what they do and coast the rest.
Damn that's dedication!!! Do you know how to say Hello World yet?
I've been learning Python so thankfully it's easier than some of the other languages to do that type of stuff! I'm still a pretty big noob at it but getting there.
My next language to learn is JavaScript and it seems a bit different to do it in that but that's the benefit of learning, reflecting on ways that things are different and how some are potentially easier than others.
I wanted to learn coding and started a fee years ago when I was working at a tech company but haven't had the opportunity to pick that up. I have so many other things on. Having led a team at a tech company which included devs gave me a great understanding of what was achievable. I've since led a few other tech projects. Very valuable stuff and the language of the future
I suck at routines too. My kids (all teens now) have never had a bed time. My youngest was a night owl from birth. The others all put themselves to bed when they were tired. I think this is a modern problem because of electric light. Ina time before you could switch on a light (or an iPad) you had to go to bed because there was nothing else to do after dark.
!ENGAGE 20
ENGAGEtokens.That's really true, also feeling that one with the kids just going to bed
Routines are good but I don't think they are the concrete that some make it out to be. We all have our little things we like to do and sometimes the kids bend that a little bit but having the flexibility to get them in bed at a certain time is good. Our little man has fluctuated most of his life so far but we are starting to get him into bed a little earlier in the evening. For a while 10-11 were normal nights for him so that was brutal! Now we are getting him to sleep usually around 830-9. Our little man is a sleeper though! He loves his sleep just like his papa so that's really good and he will sleep until anywhere between 730-930 in the morning. Saving grace for some time of sanity that's for sure!
The only thing I would say could be a benefit to your daughter by going to sleep earlier and getting up earlier is she gets more hours of daylight and vitamin D, even in the house. Those morning hours are the best for vitamin D benefits if I remember correctly.
!ENGAGE 30
ENGAGEtokens.hi @melbourneswest
Hope you are doing well and it's great to hear some truths from other parents.
Thanks, @edprivat for tagging me in.
Well in my honest opinion
I feel that having listened to so many people and their different styles of what " perfect nighttime routine" is for kids is what made it take so long to find one. the perfect night time routine for your kids is one in which they receive the correct amount of sleep for their brains to develop and function optimally and well. The only thing I find to be the biggest disrupter for this is not always the actual time that they fall asleep but how they fall asleep and their emotional state when they do eventually go to Lala land.
In your case, that closure for them seems to be being around you or hanging out and if it does not bother you then enjoy it! these fine years go past so fast. and yes routine is important but there are many areas to practice it in and many methods to use.
So for us, we have made what gives them their closure at the end of the day the routine and in doing so they have started sleeping better and it's becoming less and less of a task for all of us. For our son, being tucked into his blankets and having his own space to make his car noises and seemingly never-ending soft chats with himself ( which have lately become rapping attempts.... pfff)
but in no time he is passed out on his own. For our daughter a whole routine of her own that requires a sequence of kisses and hugs from us and baby(Eskimo kisses, butterfly kisses, mountain bear hug, ear hugs and kisses...don't ask... and one more Eskimo kiss to seal (from all of us) tucked in than deal and lights out then she is out in 15-20 mins. Again, to be VERY clear that they never use to sleep well or early at all for so many years as mentioned by hubby @edprivat.
Also, I must admit homeschooling now allows us that extra room for them to wake up later if they do sleep late but it also gives us the time to work when they are out much like yourself, but what fits one does not always fit another. I feel it's important not to set out to fix what is not broken only to best optimise and improve on it to best suit all your individual family needs if that makes any sense.
Take care and enjoy doing what works best for you and your family:-)
Thank you, thats great to know, I do see it that way. I don't want to waste this moments on sleep 🤣
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.That's some good shit right here, it's true that everything is a bit easier since homeschooling.
Very proud of how far they come.
We always had bedtime routines, but that's because it's the only way I could handle the day, especially when they used to go to school and we had to get up at 7am. I hated that. They still had the extra curricular activities when homeschooling, so we had to be organised to get them on time.
Things gradually relaxed as they aged and we started homeschooling, but my eldest always worked better with routine. I suspected she was low level autism spectrum for years, but she has recently had a ADHD diagnosis. Turns out the way I handled it was the right approach for it not to be an issue throughout her childhood. The cracks started to appear as she entered the adult world.
I think it's a matter of what suits each family. If you end up in the school system you kind of have to get a bedtime routine in place so they can function at school. With modern day work practices often requiring shift work, it really is hard to develop a routine around.
Don't stress too much about ADHD, I was diagnosed with that. Hate when I hear people say people with ADHD don't amount to anything.
I predominantly work in auditing and compliance, but as typical with ADHD I also do emergency management where I am deployed to rescue operations, I also do project management. I train every night and always on the go with Lil miss 4 annnnnd just about never really sleep.
Oh I also help community groups strengthen their governance and leadership. Also support project planning and integration.
I'm always go go go, struggled as a kid. As I get older. Doesn't get easier but I am always active.
I'm the complete opposite to you! I'm slow at everything and just reading all that you do is overwhelming! 😅
I'm glad I've never heard that said! 😡 They obviously know very little about it, although I'm only just learning myself, via my daughter. She's currently in uni, halfway through her degree and aiming for a doctorate.
I wonder if my friend's son is rather like you. I've not seen them for years (we're half a world apart now), but his energy levels were something to behold! She spent years trying to get a diagnosis for him so he could get support in school, but they dragged it out and I don't think it ever happened. I think he did okay academically in the end, though. He has good parental support. I must remember to email them...
I think at one point my daughter resented that I didn't get her diagnosed to help her sooner, but since speaking to a psychiatrist she's told me I did the right things, particularly not making an issue of it. To me there was never a reason to have her diagnosed, because there was nothing wrong with her. She was perfectly normal in that vast range of normality and she still is. I often think that the only reason we end up feeling the need to label these things as "disorders" is because society doesn't allow for much range of normal. I tried to prepare her for the fact that the adult world doesn't make allowances, but I don't think you can really realise it fully until you enter that world. Her psychologist is teaching her coping mechanisms.
110% agree with you on this! My wife was "diagnosed" with ADHD in her teens and I understand that she sometimes has issues concentrating but she seems to let it define her and falls back on it as a crutch sometimes. I don't make much of an issue about it because she feels strongly, (and small things like this are not at all worth arguing about lol) maybe because she's had the label for so long it won't go away, but it really irks me that society calls it a disorder! Why the hell can't it just be people who are normal (what I personally consider normal) and energetic, when most of society is energy deprived and sluggish?
I can see our son having some of the signs of it but he's a high energy kid that needs things that interest him in order to do and learn things. I was very similar to him when I was younger, if the subject bored me, I didn't really care or try and I was high energy. If I had gone to a medical professional about it I can probably say that I would have been "diagnosed" with the affliction and put on medication. If someone is energetic and bored with things that don't interest them, there seems to not be any room in what is allowed for society so they must be medicated.
I’m hoping that because my daughter chose to get herself diagnosed at 19, she won't take it on as a label so much. It's never been those around her telling her that this is what she is. Having said that, I also realise she has a tendency to want something to blame when her behaviour hurts others.
As far as I'm concerned, high energy is default for children. I think some schools allow for it to a point in the junior years, but come highschool there is no allowance for it, like it's suddenly meant to disappear?
Except it's not her that needs to learn coping mechanisms, it's the world.
Labels are just that. We label people outside the square who can not remain still or do as their told or XYZ went through it all as a kid, heard it all, copped it all. Knew it was all shit.
My daughter is the exact same as me, my partner struggles I cope quite ok with it. But at 34 my energy levels are probably just under my 4 yr olds. Sometimes she beats me, other times she falls asleep exhausted. All depends.
Uni's and schools want a "diagnosis" so they can "help" which is bullshit. I struggled at school because some teachers were shit and depressed. I excelled in classes that were engaging and hands on. They tried to direct me to trades. Tried that for a bit but then decided I wanted to go back to the office and change the world.
So I did, I've rolled our programs and projects that have seen me feature on Google blog and had American and UK companies try and recruit me.
I'm short, sweet and to the point. People don't always like me. But I have quite a few projects under my belt that were world firsts that have made change. If I was a grub I'd sold for millions but I gave them away so they can be replicated.
Don't get me wrong, I have a very nice wage at my current office job.
Hands down, I don't think they will be ready for your daughter. ADHD is a weapon when it is focused.
Yeah the way schools and other places try to get rid of and tame people that have high energy levels is brutal. I feel for you on the boring teachers and boring subjects. I loved the subjects and classes that were hands on and the teachers made learning fun and connected. If the teacher just sat at their desk and talked at us instead of getting us involved I wouldn't bother and ended up getting some bad grades because that wasn't how I learned. It worked out in the end because those same classes in high school that I couldn't handle, in college with better professors and learning styles I got A's. I even got a 100% on the final exam in one of my classes, the professor was completely shocked, it was one of my proudest moments! That same class in high school I got a D because it was taught in such a lame way.
Sounds like you're doing well when you have the right environments so that's awesome, I'm glad for you! We need more people like that in the world, motivated and want to do good instead of taking what they have and selling it to the highest bidder to buy crap they don't need.
Totally agree and for anyone that's interested this is the Google blog.
It was my first year of Dadding and I was awaiting an operation for a hernia repair. I had put on a bit of weight 🤣
https://australia.googleblog.com/2017/08/give-little-warmth-this-winter.html?m=1
Unfortunately, for where she wants to get career wise, she has to jump through the the hoops that are a university education and hours in exams. Once she gets through that, the work she would be doing should be stimulating enough for her to just be herself again. In the mean time it's coping mechanisms to get her through and she's even considering Ritalin (I'm hoping she doesn't and she knows my thoughts on it, but she'll do things her own way).
I yearn for the day when all personality types are accepted as normal, but the current equality drive could actually undermine that, because they can't be seen to be treating people differently (although really it's treating them according to their needs). This is probably why they justify it with diagnoses within schools. They can't allow one kid who focuses better when doing headstands and roly polies (my youngest, funnily enough) to do so, when the rest can't focus while doing that, but will feel unfairly treated if they aren't allowed to also do it. So I do see why schools have to go the diagnosis route, although even then I'm sure other kids will see it as unfair and want to know why they can't be "special".
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The first thing I did to get to that sweet sweet sleeping routine my kid is on right now is to forget all the routine that other parents taught me. I used to stress out about that afternoon nap time because thenkid just doesn't want to have that nap. I know I do, but she doesnt so no more afternoon nap times.
Right now she sleeps at 8-ish, 9-ishin the evening and wales up at 7 or 8 in the morning. I tire her out during the day with all the activities I could think of. Sometimes it's just running back and forth, or just jumping. It's taking all of my energy but that also means by nightfall, she's gonna be ready to snooze as soon as she gets her night time bath.
She used to sleep at 2am before. It's killing me because when she's awake, that means I can't do any of my personal stuff. But one day, she just decided she wants to sleep early.
I think routines are good, as long as you see your kid also wants it. As long as they get enough sleep time, it doesn't matter whether they sleep at 8pm or at 12mn.
Sounds similar to us, my wife is being hit hard by it. Unfortunately I work 9-5 so my wife wears the brunt. I do take time out to engage with my daughter. But this leads me to another post tonight I think.
Perhaps @homeedders can grow to include parental support and discussion?