Results from a Single Leo Thread
data mining serviceLeo's new proposal which got me thinking what if I look into specific communities and explore their hive etiquette. I am interested in learning their behavior simply by how they act, post, and interact with the hive blockchain. We are developing to run better queries to question the publicly available data, but I first thought that I can look into a sample.Lately I am powered by @beaker007 's and I simply can't get enough of it! Yesterday I saw that @themarkymark published a post about
Generated by AI, DALLE-3; Prompt: a single thread through the needle
Notice: How DALLE-3 failed on the prompt :) I digress, still a nice image though
I took a single sample thread recently. LeoThread 2025-02-02 12:35. Here it is:
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@leothreads/leothread-2025-02-02-12-35
The thread has 2575 comments. What @beaker007 's tool does, that it can parse through this data and list names of unique commenters. It doesn't list higher level comments. So, here is that list.
Once I have the list, I can use the querry part of this tool to get relevant hive, SL and now LEO data for all those 125 commenters who commented on that thread. This is my sample. I am not making a determination if this is a good sample or a bad sample. This sample is randomly chosen, and I can choose n-number of other random samples. I can also increase the sample size easily. You saw recently, I have been able to manage 4360 accounts on a single spreadsheet and plots. That is probably about 50% of the active hive users.
My hypothesis that I am trying to test is as follows:
Leo users doesn't hold significant asset in the ecosystem, they hold neither Leo nor Hive.
I like to test this hypothsis by doing a simple data analysis from this sample. My metric is long term investment mindset or holding assets on this ecosystem. Number of comments or threads or transactions means nothing to me.
First thing is to check the held HP of these people. Here is that.
Let me give you the bad news first! Out of 125 accounts, 72 accounts hold ZERO HP. Zip, nada!! That is 57% of the commenters folks!
But, wait!! You will say, this is a LEO thread. It is okay they are not holding HP. We are here to power the layer two chain! They must be holding LEO. Well.....
There you have it. I have their Total Leo (staked + liquid) plotted at the same space. 31 accounts hold ZERO leo, that is 25%. Also 60 accounts hold less than 10 LEO. Wait! Why did you add the first two bins?!
Well, because Leo is worthless. Sorry, no pun intended! 1 hive = 20 Leo currently. So if I am doing it right, the first hive bin on 1 hive is in fact first 3 bins of LEO. 0-1, 1-10, 10-20! That is 73 accounts!! Amazing how the numbers match with behaviors! Yes, that is 58% of the total commenters.
Yes, most of those are shit-posts, shit-comments, useless comments, or spam. Those accounts neither hold any hive or Leo.
Cross Plots
Since we have the data, we can sure cross plot them. Here you go!
(Hive + HP) along the X-axis, and (Leo + Staked Leo) along the Y-axis. No shit! Most of the people are near 0-0 and can't even see them! Pardon my negative axis, I tried to increase visibility!
Alright, you say, bring the log plot! Yes, Ser! (as leo people like to say it)
Y-Axis is log-scale this time, as promised. Circle size is HBD in savings, just for fun. I kept X-axis linear, because there is hardly any data there! LOL!
Are you dissing on a project?
Although I wrote in a tongue-in-cheek fashion, dissing on a project at hive is not my goal. I am simply doing a data mining and showing people what I see. I am also providing data and visuals to support by hypothesis that we are not really getting 1000s of new users of investors by supporting LEO for the last whole year. That has already happened and there is not data to show that we have gained new investors.
If we have not in the last year, why do you think we will in the next year? Doing the same thing over and over again and expect different result is called what now?
It's called Insanity, Ser!
Wen?
Well, sorry Ser! I forgot to show when these accounts were created!
Look at all the accounts created as such a narrow time, very end of 2024-early 2025. Doesn't that look strange to you?
And a visual of the table
With that please decide how you are going to vote on the current Leo Proposal. I know I will NOT be voting it. Not in a million years!
Oh, and I am voting on the return proposal as well.
it ain’t over til it’s over… Lenny Kravitz
This is brutal. I was voting for this too as i (stupidly) didn't dig deep into it. I suspect most people don't but as you say, the data don't lie.
Just like that pesky Star Trek android 😃
Yeah but do you pronounce it Data or Data?
It has to be Day-ta! 😃😃
Buddy just picked a random thread, pulled 125 accounts and called it data.
You are laughable. I hope nobody reads this and thinks you actually did something here. I could pull all the commenters of a random Hive post that may not have any HIVE, LEO or anything in their wallet. Hell they could all be accounts created that day.
Can we call that data too?
If anyone wants real data that isn't cherry-picked to shape a narrative, you can read it on @leofinance.
We'll post a post showing that the LEO community owns north of 20M HIVE POWER collectively. Not a cherry picked sample of 125 accounts from whatever Azricon sees fit.
I am glad a that I can provide laughter in today's world.
Many thanks for your compliment.
Data is freely available. I get to do whatever I want with it.
Downvoted because this comment is not worth $10.
By the way, how is the proposal fairing?
https://dashboard.simpleanalytics.com/inleo.io?period=year&count=1&interval=month
No SHIT!!
Yes and you have shown your cards in your post. Hopefully nobody actually takes you seriously after seeing this.
I am not a fan of LEO any longer, since we lost a lot of money on their CUB project. They seem to always bring something new, making everyone think, it helps HIVE, but I am not convinced.
Yeah they bring new trash alright!
CUB was such an iconic trash! Never again! They are bunch of crooks.
Hey Look I'm on the graph! Life milestone achieved! sigh It's a damn shame that these projects are just not producing at all. It's getting extremely tiring honestly. Hive just feels dead in terms of any viable app built on top of it. Even Splinterlands is struggling big time. Just wish we could get some positive action somewhere because this really wears on a person. If I was a "regular" user I'd be gone but being I have so much time, money and resources invested here I pretty much feel obligated lol
yeah and look at yourself where you are relative to others!!
People are using and abusing you, and this I do not say very lightly.
"They" are literally taking your money and selling for cash, and you are holding the bag. That is the reality.
Someone tagged me last night, I checked the post.. not too bad, and then checked the KE of the tagger. 27.., well no vote for you then.
Abusing our good nature, yes. I do this a lot now, no support for those who don't want to give back.
This is very true and a good point. It's often hard to see what people are doing with those funds unless you really start to dig in. I want growth, and sure I want to cash out some, some day and have only been stacking for the last 8 years lol.
Thank you for the analysis, not to diss any project but to have a proper understanding of what is happening and be able to use that to make decisions.
Would it be possible to apply this kind of analysis to any of the projects that have received funding through valueplan? I feel that I know what the results would be, but it would still be good if we had some kind of analytical tool where it is comparatively easy to assess the outcome of DHF investment.
Getting people here who are interested in what Hive is all about and then supporting them is a job in itself. My own experience last year was two workshops with a total of 40 people; 25 expressing interest; 5 following through; 2 opening accounts and one person currently learning to find their way around Hive. For 10,000 users that would be engaging with 400,000 people.
I'd also like to ask a favour. This is the fifth year that I have run the Saturday Savers Club on the @eddie-earner account. I had multiple objectives in setting it up, but one of the insights from members is that the Club helped them to find a focus on Hive and for a couple of them, it is what has kept them here.
We've just completed compiling the list of Savers for this year (most recent version), although others will join through the year. Would it be possible to run a KE analysis on those accounts now, and then another one at the end of November to see what, if anything, has changed?
There you go, Mr Chops is at your service!! Thanks @slobberchops
😁
Saturday Savers is a great vehicle to instill the idea of keeping value on chain, and incremental investment on Hive.
Because of my participation in Saturday Savers, I have increased my schedule of purchasing Hive for fiat. Is it a large effect? Probably not - $200 of purchases of Hive likely don't register in a statistical plot. In aggregate though initiatives like Saturday Savers likely do have a net positive effect.
I think it is those small things that make a difference and the attitudes and behaviour behind them.
Glad you're finding some value in Saturday Savers Club!
I can do this for you Shani, drop me the list of users.
Thanks 🙂
He cherry picked 125 random accounts. This is not a representation of LEO Holders.
Thanks for coming by @leo.voter. Are you able to give a better representation of LEO holders? It would be great to see it.
Hey Shani, yes we are thank you for asking
We decided to build a dashboard app for hive with open source APIs this morning. We’ll be releasing it today. It shows the actual data (not cherry picked as this post is). It’s all verifiable with downloadable CSV files and API end points.
It’s the mic drop to end this conversation. No more fake data allowed.
Fabulous!
I'd be interested to see accounts created over time and what happened to them? Maybe a monthly snapshot, graphed like above, so ideally we'd be able to see a little milky way gradually appearing in the bottom left-hand corner between 0 and 600 and beyond over the course of time. Should we be looking for HP if it's InLeo? I think it would be good to see both (and HBD, why not).
The other thing that would be an asset to Hive is if the tool that you develop could be used for other marketing proposals to the DHF, so we would have a common way of comparing different proposals.
Hey look at me! I'm famous!
Of course you are! You are a regular dude! :)
I guess it's easy to be a regular dude in a sea of bots.
This is one reason we need to adopt a new reputation system. The current one is basically a measure of how many upvotes an account has received, and it's too easy for new fake accounts to increase their rep after a few decent upvotes.
Neutron star?
Neutron star, black hole, whatever hides the secret of this universe!
In this case, for anyone with an ounce of intelligence and common sense, they will lead to the same conclusion. Spam, AI and serious fucktardery. The whole platform is a shit fest.
I agree, so why is the hive community supporting them?
What is the community hoping for? Miracle?
Exactly. It makes no sense. I have started reporting certain accounts to Hivewatchers for spam and AI use. I'm sure they'll do nothing but it shows my feelings and makes a point.
They don't care unless it is a very small account making peanuts.
They don't, I agree, but all I can do is make a point by filling in the report form and removing my DHF vote.
If we don’t control the AI spam we can lose the chain to it.
A rare comment from you :)
You must follow the data.
That is very disappointing. But I am not surprised. Thank you @themarkymark and @azircon for the work you do. I got experiment more with @beaker007's tool. It's cool.
Lately that tool is making me excited a great deal. So many possibilities!
I agree! I like the KE Ratio. So far that has been the only thing I have used. Been taking a look at who I follow. Most have good KE but not all. Got to look into the ones that don't have good KE. May unfollow them.
It’s a simple measure of who is committed and who is here to exploit
Yep that's for sure. It keeps people honest about there intentions.
He cherry picked 125 random accounts. This is not a representation of LEO Holders.
He picked a random thread, not a random number of accounts. Do your research before you comment. And I looked into that same thread that @azircon picked. The accounts that hold no HP are threaders. They have no posts only comments. And those comments haven't earned much or even calmed what they have earned. Not saying that is good or bad. That is up to the reader to decide.
I already started removing my support for other reasons. It started with this post all leo holders must read this.. Where I'm being told if I hit 100 LEO I will be harassed for not having a phone that I can put telegram on. This is why I don't support LEO proposals.
But I didn't completely stop supporting LEO because I saw the good things LEO was bringing to HIVE. I was giving LEO a chance.
But looking at my staked LEO I can see that you see that I supply no value to you since I haven't received staking rewards ever since I removed 5 LEO from @leo.voter and @lolz.leo to increase my LEO vote value to reward creators on LEO. Because of that I have not been on LEO much. Before this post I tried to login to INLEO, it took about 6 tries before I managed to get it logged in. Looked at the dashboard to figure out what was going on, to discover my settings were changed from stacked earnings to liquid earnings and that I am suppose to earn 0.0499 LEO for my delegation. Since I have not been receiving those rewards, I will be removing my delegation and sending to lolz.leo. They provide me with more value. And I am considering removing my stake in LEO:LBI instead of slowly increasing it to get the LEO rewards that I am not getting yet. Not worth my $0.02. I think will put the LEO in the CENT:LEO to get my CENT rewards, since it provides me more value then LEO does. The Diesel pools and the LEO creators are the only thing I will support from now on. You want my support beyond that, prove you are worth my time.
I chose a random sample. In scientific studies we always do that. The assumption is a randomly chosen sample should represent the population! This is fundamental of statistics.
Here, I have chosen another random sample and made a plot.
Do you see any difference? I don't. I can look at a bigger sample, I can look at half of the population and I can look at the entire population. I will find the same answer.
~57% of the accounts hold less than 1 hive or 20 Leo worth of assets
It matters not if all the Leo users cumulatively hold 10M hive or 20M hive. The above hypothesis is solid so far. Even if that number is half that, say 28%, that is still dismal!
I see no difference in the numbers you present.
I looked at your previous sample and all I could find was one 2024 with over 6k hp, 18 from 2024-2025 that are under 400hp and the rest of the 2024-2025 haven't earned or claimed. This is all that have been on-boarded to HIVE. 34 of the big accounts are from before 2022. I hope when you break down the numbers @khaleelkazi you at least break it down by year so we know how many new have put in.
57% of 125 of your chosen sample haha 💀
Why choose a random sample when we have an open source blockchain with the data?
That is an accepted scientific method.
When I have the time I can look at a bigger sample. This is my blog. I decide what I do here.
Who are you to ask me and direct me what to do?
You’re misrepresenting data by choosing a sample set that fits your narrative
It’s irrelevant now because we’ve already pulled the data and put it in a dashboard. As shown in my previous screenshots. LEO monthly active users have over 16M Hive power
Your numbers are like walking into a hospital and polling the people in it for general health statistics on a broad population
He cherry picked a thread container that had 125 accounts in it. Thread containers are created roughly every 3 hours (sometimes more, sometimes less).
Regardless of everything else, I’m tired of false data and cherry picked data being used.
The facts are all on chain and I’ve decided to shift my entire dev team to building a dashboard that shows THE REAL DATA. Not the cherry picked bs shown here.
The real data will be live on a real-time dashboard by end of day today for anyone that doesn’t want fake news.
So that must be enough hive to get your proposal above return, right?
Why don't you work on it as opposed to calling me stupid and spend time on my blog.
Get lost..........please!
I look forward to what you present. But I not voting for the proposal any time soon. We will see how I feel when I get past 100 LEO! Depends on how I am treated, since you already threatened to harass me for not Telegram if I reach 100 LEO. Not to please about being threatened. Not a great way of doing business. Not very professional in my opinion.
I've learned over the years that Marky is usually pretty spot on with his assessments, even though people give him a bad rap. I don't think it is even 20% deserved. What you proved here is actually one of a couple reasons why I won't be supporting their proposal.
Marky is usually never wrong with data.
I glad that you are not, because it just simply ain't right!
He cherry picked 125 random accounts. This is not a representation of LEO Holders.
More support for Marky's claims against LEO. I also know what I will not be voting for.
Thanks for sharing the data!
You are welcome.
Datas don't lie. 👏🏻
They typically do not!
Love me same data. Also love to think about why said data would play out the way it does. I think the mass onboard at the end of the year was all the DASH users coming on. Naturally they would not have any HIVE or LEO. I could be wrong though.
Onboard: which means opening a free account means nothing to me. Anyone can do that, and many has done in the past. Hive is full of defunct 25 rep accounts.
Unless that account invests and contribute positively to the ecosystem, its all meaningless.
I agree with this 100% If they don't invest we are almost better off without them.
That is my point. I don’t care how much HP total active Leo users hold. That is not the metric I am looking at
Can’t say I’m surprised here. I’d guess most are alts and not even primary accounts.
Yes likely.
Or worse, fake accounts with automated comments supported by AI.
In the video I referenced in my post Khal was congratulation a user who made ai bots that others can use (likely the one task is using).
Definitely a lot of AI comments in there. It's rather obvious.
As with you, he just cherry picked 125 random accounts.
I can cherry pick 125 accounts owned between you azricon too.
Please do. I'd love to see this.
Also, I'd love to see where I cherry picked random accounts. Please show me.
I'd love to see this too! :)
We won’t.
Oh my!
just reading comments here and it NEVER OCCURED to me that people were spam AI botting the comments in HIVE. I mean i know people use AI to write "shitposts" and things. but not comments. Today someone posted on my blog "don't give spam comments your votes" and i was like... "what the" and now looking into it, and seeing your comments on your post im pissy!
What turds!
Yes, such is life!
You can’t have a real conversation with a fellow human! Watch out it’s a bot!
That is Leo threads for you.
Thanks for the heads up i guess!!
yikes.
BLINGIT
He cherry picked 125 random accounts. This is not a representation of LEO Holders.
Will there be an uproar? I was planning to get some Leo tokens but this article is an eye opener. Thanks!
we will see how it goes.
This is amazing! Thank you for breaking it down like this for those of us that don't even know where to find this info. Also, I love geology :D
It’s okay not to know, I don’t know everything. I only know a few things :)
I do use the chain every day and I know it doesn't feel like thousands of new users are pouring in. Thanks!
It doesn't.
Also I mentioned in the post. To me, new users do not matter that much. Anyone can open a free account that doesn't mean anything.
Unless that account invests and hold hive or other tokens and actively contribute to the blockchain, it adds no value.
Again the must show either investment, or positive contribution by creating engaging content that people like to consume and interact as a human.
This is a clear strong statement. I read a lot of content on Hive, the range of quality is wide. There's a subjective component to "quality", but some authors and commentors certainly stand out.
The value of your statement, is that it clearly articulates your success criteria for new users. Rereading this, if I was pitching a proposal to you I would lay out a plan to onboard high quality users (by your criteria) or the methods I would use to improve the quality of their content and engagements.
Aligning goals is not impossible, but identifying the expectations of the stakeholders that we seek support from is a critical part of that process.
Yes, my message has always been very clear.
Posting for money never been a good option for us. We have 8+ years of experience on this. No other blockchain community have that. The moment you dangle money, you end up with spam.
He cherry picked 125 random accounts. This is not a representation of LEO Holders.
I heard a lot about AI that Leo is developing and that it could be a potential draw for investors into Hive platform, what do you think about that?
So far they have brought ZERO investor. Ask them to show someone who bought 30K hive. Can they?
I can.
Bravetofu
Yep, and BraveTofu is the Splinterlands player. And others from Splinterlands community are buying also!
Waste of our time and resources.
Do you want to talk to a human or you rather have an AI friend?
Because the second is so easy to do, I can make one with Claude or Co-pilot.
And still some of the biggest believers in Hive vote on this proposal and many vote blind. Inleo is great as a tool, but they had 1 year to figure out how they can generate steady income.
And that's the problem. Hopefully now people see the light.
Look what I found on X :P
Marky found 11 accounts that holds more than 500 HP. Rest is dust.
Then why the Fuck are they posting shit on X? 😓 You can't fake Hard Data, especially on Blockchain and they could not backup their main Data that they showed us in their proposal with a more deep and detailed data. We were asking many times to show the data of all Dash users that registered with Inleo and all their activity, but we never seen it.
Shitposting is what they do :)
They made a name for themselves.
That comment was funny, welcome to the internet @azircon , after all it's 50% shaped that way (Twitter, Facebook and Instagram)
I say it is more than 80% of twitter now. That is why I don’t go there now. Twitter is a cesspool!
@azircon You have done your research, I believe it a call for the information to be used for the growth of the Hive community, I can also see from the @leofinance point of view, but I clearly seen a clearer picture of the whole project. I would also like to catch up with you on data science. I will love invite to your discord for further discussion.
!PIZZA
Look pretty amuzing! A burst of suprenova shitstar.
well done
I hope the @hivewatcher will look into it.
would be nice to have similar deep dive into splinterlands abuse of Hive curation
you could work on your hypocrisy
That is not very nice. Azircon has been posting about that for the last half a year, it lead to the changes in all three Splinterlands contest rules and now community is aware of issues with milking Splinterlands contests. I for one am no longer voting for accounts that extracted over 75% of their rewards thanks to the easy to see KE of 3+
Splinterlands curators also seem to have gotten better at voting in the first 24 hours. Yeah it is not perfect yet, but at least they are working on it.
lol! You could go to hell :)
I already did that - kinda what kicked this whole thing off ya know?
https://peakd.com/splinterlands/@captaindingus/a-sad-realization-about-splinterlands-hive-resource-extraction-
Azricon just cherry picked this data. I'm sure if he does a post about himself, he can sound like king of the world too by picking 125 of his own bot accounts to support his narrative