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don't ignore women in chat because you want to mancave with your buddies, it's rude.

This has happened to me a lot tbh. I feel like I'm walking into a man cave and so I walk straight out again. There can be some very disrespectful talk about woman in there and I'm too scared to come in and say 'hey, that's not okay' because I'll be dismissed as a hippie, a leftie, being too 'PC' or whatever else they might want to come up with. Or I'm just plain ignored, because they want to talk about cars, woman, and whatever else, so .... maybe they do need a #mancave channel, but with some men in it that'll call it out when they are being sexist, misogynistic, disrespectful assholes.

Social media can be a brutal reflection of society at large and as an international and innovative platform we have a special responsibility to be kind, compassionate and universal..Kindness indeed doesn't cost a thing but it can be priceless when someone needs it most.

Thanks @skramatters for perfectly summing it up here. I like to think we keep that stuff out of @naturalmedicine, and the one time I did have a sarcastic, patronising voice in there I messaged him and politely asked him to stop, with love and respect. He did NOT take it kindly and lost his shit, pulled his delegation and disappeared as he thought I was picking on him - even though I said 'I know you may not have meant it that way, but please know your comments could be seen as quite demeaning and cruel, and you have upset the person you were talking to'. It made me feel sad.

I also know what it's like to be called a dude or a brother here, and when I correct them, they disappear and don't support me anymore. I also know what it's like to be less well regarded because I am not a male whilst watch male leaders in similar positions to me being pandered to. And there's nothing I can do about it and nor do I want to as I don't want to be trolled or hated or attacked. You are an amazing person for speaking out against injustice, inequality and the damn asshole-ness of society - a society that is mirrored on Steem despite our efforts to create an amazing place where people are 'free' - when we're not. The same laws apply - the ones that divide and isolate us, bully and patronise us.

Thankyou to the men who are NOT like that here. And I do say MEN, as I have yet to see the same behaviour of a woman. Point me in that direction and I'll stand corrected, happily. Fucking ego power plays and limited, childish minds who can't understand we are all in this together.

Just be you, @torico. That's all we can do - continue to model behaviour we wish to see in the world. Then you can rest easy knowing you have done your best.

But yes please, can Discord be a safe place for woman, and a respectful one? It's hard enough in real life.

I'm too scared to come in and say 'hey, that's not okay' because I'll be dismissed as a hippie, a leftie, being too 'PC' or whatever else they might want to come up with

Speaking as an anarcho-capitalist who is almost virulently freedom-oriented, I think attempts to enforce political correctness are a good thing. That might come as a surprise, since an-caps are seen to lie maybe more on the conservative end of the spectrum, but when we express discontent about someone else's speech (which is not censorship; only governments can define "illegal" speech) we're engaging in what free-market economists call "market forces." That's how society self-regulates, as opposed to looking to centralized governments to regulate our behavior for us. We regulate each other, and that's how societies and markets work when left alone. Anarchists aren't opposed to following rules; we'd just rather the rules were derived laterally by the people involved rather than by government. And if people respond to your attempts to civilize the conversation by saying you're "too PC," remind them (or inform them) of this! When enough people express the need for civil discourse, our complex adaptive society will continually respond democratically to this self-regulation -- not all at once, across the board, but person by person, chat room by chat room. 😃

Hear hear! As a guy that often plays the role of antagonist and is quite blunt I do hope my intent to help us all grow together isn't overshadowed by my dirty words and derogatory comments..

I try to pick on my targets equally and inspire them to do some self reflection.. I absolutely don't intend to belittle people due to circumstances completely out of their control but I'm sure I've crossed lines as I admittedly stray from the safe, PC, socially conformed patterns purposefully.

BTW, were you choosing to be ironic when you used the word douche to describe someone that is being hurtful or annoying? 🕵😜 You also said you have a "pitiful" need to be liked and I'm sure you're well aware we all share this need as social beings and it's of course in no way pathetic or pitiful..

Anyway, I get your message and I respect that you and others have boundaries, I myself also have feelings and can be quite sensitive. I too would prefer that people like me, especially people I like and respect.. I never really bullied anyone but the bullies as a kid and I think I'm still the same, though I've probably extended my scope to include anyone I see as I having ulterior motives or being fake not as a defense mechanism but to curry favour and/or cheat people for personal gains..

Social media can be a brutal reflection of society at large and as an international and innovative platform we have a special responsibility to be kind, compassionate and universal..

Kindness indeed doesn't cost a thing but it can be priceless when someone needs it most.. Hugs and 🍪 cookies to you... I've stayed out of discord lately as it was getting too dramatic for my taste.. And I've got all these Rcs.. 😂

Most guys are like you and Im ok with that. one of my fears is that people would read this and think im being preachy or fussy over nothing. So I threw all the pussy videos in to make a point. The douche word was totally ironic. I loaded that post with all the bad mouthed bitch I could, to illustrate how casually we accept words that are also used to harm.

I think everyone has boundaries, and Im sure I cross them with others, but this habit some guys have of holding in their feelings and pretending they dont care wht other people say hinders the whole process of open communication. totally agree with you that we have a special responsibility in realizing that how we act is reflected back at us.

thanks for the cookies! hugs .

Cool! I didn't get the preachy, fussy, soap box vibes. For me it was an authentic appeal or desire for people to be more conscientious of the language they use. This is even more important online when we have no body language or tone of voice to help us figure out what's actually behind the words.

Do unto others should not be such a difficult concept but it definitely is and maybe that's because on some level sadly, being hurtful feels more familiar or genuine to many people that have been ridiculed and abused more often than treated with respect and dignity.

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I noticed you slipped a casual "dude" in there and actually and in all honesty I have offended women in the past by using "dude" in my own speech on Discord! Which to me, and the era I grew up in, "dude" is not a male-gendered term. Which of course was neither here not there when I offended a woman by starting a response to her with "dude". Words are tricky slippery beasts and emotions even moreso. I think you are right in that people need to call it out when they perceive something offensive is happening, and even moreso need to be willing to accept the validity of someone else being offended. It is all too easy to take the anonymity afforded by computer screens and usernames and use it as license to be shitty. Remembering these are all real people with real feelings and totally different perceptions and experiences can be hard, even overwhelming - but we should all try :)

I also use "you guys" as a second person plural pronoun without regard to gender, unless told otherwise.

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I've grown quite fond of the expression, "people", which is inclusive and not indicative of a specific gender.

haha yea i did that dude on purpose because I kinda dislike being called dude, but it seemed to fit the casual insult mood. its a love hate word. words are lurky spells that cast influence that are - exactly - tricky slippery slopes. Throw in ESL people, different cultures - tis a malestrom.

It amazes me how people who dont know me well assume I'm a guy. then stop talking to me the same way after I tell them I'm a woman. Like they cant identify with me anymore. shrug.

Ive had a few guys scoff at my opinion, literally say to me, :"well you're just a woman", as if that explained everything. I understand that its cultural most times, but it still floors me that this attitude persists. Calling them on it is trickier because they dont accept my authority to do so.

On top of it we are fighting the backlash against people that get offended at the stupidest things.

I wrote this more for the people that I care about, who I realize just dont think about the words they use, or who are so stuck in their patterns that they dont understand that just because they didnt mean to offend doesnt mean that what they said isnt offensive.

And I'm also battling my own sex that casually accept the language that belittles them. They accept that status quo and dont understand why I make a big deal about it. For instance when I was 16, I loved it that my bf refered to me as wench. I thought it was funny. yet when I was older, and a little wiser, another bf didnt understand why I objected to him calling me "puta" as an endearment - none of his past gfs minded. or never said they did. culture and context.

Mostly I think people dont understand how words are perceived by outsiders, how they latch on to the fact that if a guy I know calls me a bitch and I allow it, that its ok for a guy to call any woman a bitch. they dont understand the context of humor or situation, or that maybe women do mind but are afraid to speak up. I want to give everyone that freedom to say something, and think about whats ok to say in a multicultural setting.

I think silence and passive acceptance sends the wrong message, and the only way to fight it is to educate people about what they are passively condoning.

Thankyou for your lovely comment here, @carlgnash, that proves it's not all men who are disrespectful asses. It definitely isn't entirely about gender, and I'm never going to be offended at being called a dude, until someone realises I'm not and then calls me 'too sensitive' or, as they used to say 'hysterical'. Ugh.

"yet the same word, pussy, connotes the ideal fuck, distancing the act from the individual, thus objectifying the female genitals and debasing women as people undeserving of respect or admiration."
How true is that! This could be vie wewed as derogatory. However, you raise a lot of interesting points. Interesting read

thanks. its not anything that hasnt been said before, just a reminder for people to consider and be mindful of.

Let's all become asses.
Witnesses are our idols and at the same time the biggest asses.
This is a platform of greed and exploitation.
Have fun

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some witnesses are asses. some are not. the ones that i know are lovely people. maybe you are just hanging out with the wrong witnesses? I agree that theres a lot of greed and exploitation. theres also a lot of love and caring. I'm trying to encourage the latter part and downvote the rest.

I'm talking about the top witnesses; they are the ones who have something to say

all people have something to say, if you dont like them dont vote them. three top witnesses I know all work very hard and do or say a lot if you listen. two have radio shows every week where they talk to people. I dont always agree with what they say or do but they do much to improve the platform. maybe you should listen?

maybe you should first look at my witness votes before talking bs to me?

why should i need to even have this convo? this post is not about witnesses. i'm not here to prove one witness is better than another, i'm simply giving my opinion.. im suggesting, out of courtesy because YOU raised the point, that if you are upset about witnesses that you should go listen to them and raise your concerns there.. and not in a post that has nothing to do with witnesses.

Bravo Torico, I love a good rant!

Calling people out for being offensive causes them to feel ashamed and shame makes for bad feelings. So I guess the reaction is either to apologise or to lash back to try and push some shame back onto their accuser.

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i dont always see it as a shame thing, unless a person is being a jerk on purpose. I see it as a communication thing, like "hey what you said wasnt nice, and here's why". its the other persons prerogative to feel shamed and do backlash, or to react in a caring manner by either apologising or discussing it. The very hard part, what I often fail to master, is doing this before I get so pissed off that I go for the jugular. ;)

I would feel ashamed if I accidentally offended someone. Maybe that's just me. I hope you would be gentle on me and pull me up before going for the jugular! 😆

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you yes.. some other people need to be bitten.. xD

I love good banter, but the rule is that it's like sparring: you never go further than each can take. Offensive humour is my defense against the darkness, but it doesn't suit everybody. We all have sore spots.

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This post was shared in the Curation Collective Discord community for curators, and upvoted and resteemed by the @c-squared community account after manual review.
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It is So true that we use all these words very lightly and it has a weight ! Wow , we are so programmed , are you a woman ? Are you a cookie ? Have you done the poem ? Thank you so much to open our eyes on this very important message ... we all lack a lot of respect for one another .

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i am a woman and a cookie and I am so sorry because I proscrastinate everything!! the poem has been sitting there for days and I was going to post it next but this thing about pussy came out of my mouth instead. I have ten other things I wanted to write...ha I have squirrell brain.

Hi @torico!

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I had no idea that so many groups that mention the female genitals hehehe

@rebe.torres12 they don’t. She’s just saying that for attention.

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im sorry to downvote your comment. im trying to nullify the visibility of the comment below you.

It’s amazing how much hypocrisy is displayed in each paragraph. What’s equally amazing is that you demand others stop doing things that you don’t like, while demanding that they just go away if they don’t like what you are doing while complaining about how you think society should change for the benefit of an individual while asserting that the individual should not be forced to contribute to or withdraw from the society.

One demands others mandatorily contribute to her cause and at the same time demands that she be exempt from mandatory contribution.

I applaud the hypocritical foolishness of your socialist ideals.

The most important thing about ideals, comrade, is that they are dangerous. Equality is great because some are more equal than others.

Don’t think, just do as the subservient masses do.

I do enjoy free rent.

you have a habit of demeaning women for no other reason than you derive pleasure from it. even when im not in chat, you have been casually dissing me, just to see if you can get a reaction. you've told me to shut up or ill get raped. you've insinuated that im so horny that i'd fuck anyone that asked.

i know sexual harrassment when i see it. i have nothing more to say to you.

I am retracting my assertation that nathan told me to "shut up or you'll get raped".

when reading the small print of chat as it was streaming, I misread the thread because the words were so hurtful to me, given that he was saying something so demeaning in a room full of people whose good opinion I cared about.

what he actually said was, "she ambushes people with sex harrassing, you have to be on your toes.. or you'll get raped". while not quite as threatening, i consider this language as equally as disturbing, compounded with other past statements made by him derogatory of my morals and virtue.

while i formally apologize for my mistake in the reading, i did not purposefully and knowingly lie, nor do I condone his continuing actions in trying to smear me.

definition of sexual harrassment: behavior characterized by the making of unwelcome and inappropriate sexual remarks in a social situation.

Its always easy to play the big man at the internet when you are a worm in your life. It gives you a major satisfaction and you forget that all day you crawling on the ground! Really @nathanpieters, you said those things to a girl? You are really fucked up...

If you’d like, hit me up on discord and I’ll pass all interactions to you.

Listening to this empty shell of a human is about the same as putting a metal bucket on your head and hitting it with a hammer because your ears hurt.

She is a liar, plain and simple. She had no counter to my summary of her post and now she is making up her “me too” moment to distract from the real issue.

She’s a toxic loser who thrives on making others miserable.

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I will not hit you on discord and i do not want to see private conversations of other people. I know her and frankly i will not have used all these words even for my worst enemy. But if you feel this way, my advice is plain and simple: DONT SPEAK TO HER AGAIN!

I’m not taking this shit lying down. Bitch hit on me, admits it then gets shitty when I call her out. 1AC65C51-E718-4CE9-8A3A-38D21823223D.png

@torico when I call you bitch, it’s describing your behavior and mannerisms. When I call you slut, it’s because you throw yourself at men.

You have no respect for yourself and that’s why I hate you most.

You’re a pathetic, disgusting and dishonest piece of shit.

Always the grain of truth with you.

Lol sexual harassment? YOU OF ALL PEOPLE need to stop those accusations.

I’ve never said any of those things. What I have said is that people posting about loneliness and their selfies might want to stop when you’re around because you’ll intentionally take it the wrong way.

This is a good example.

Nobody has ever threatened to rape you. Nobody wants to.

And yes, I make fun of your desperation. You’re a clown yourself, and you need to try painting a picture with something other than a sand covered paint roller.

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What's wrong with socialism??

You could ask my entire family. You’ll need to find the mass grave they are buried in. I have always felt it is just north of Cienfuegos.

I dream of them being killed but I’ve never met them.

Sorry to hear that. I can see why the word might be used as an insult by you in that case.

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