Community Proposal #6
The purpose of this proposal is to stop the lending of DAO owned Chaos Legion cards and/or decks to the NFTy platform. If this proposal passes, all cards and packs owned by the @nftybronze and @nftysilver accounts will be removed from the lending platform accounts and subsequently burned to remove them from the circulating supply of the Chaos Legion set. Any DEC received from burning the cards will be sent to the DAO.
This topic has been the subject of much debate since the initiative was launched and hopefully this proposal will put the issue to rest. Currently there are only 20 decks available for rent on the NFTy platform and when last checked only 1 of the decks was being utilized. The NFTy platform has embraced anti-bot guidelines and is doing their best to ensure that only human players can rent these decks and that they limit any account to a single deck rental for two 30 days periods.
Lame. I just hope we have a chance to let the partnership actually work. SPL dropped the ball on that with no NPE and no support for NFTy.
Would love to see what happens when we HAVE an NPE and try to actually attract new players. Plus the DAO earns from these decks when they get played. Seems so ridiculous to burn the decks now right before a bull. Burn 'em when CL rotates out of modern.
We were told give it 3-4 months and if it doesn't work, we'll burn them as agreed when the DAO voted to burn them. Now its been a year and we're still clinging to a dream.
NFTy came to us and told us that they had huge gaming guilds ready to sign up. They told us they had tons of new players wanting in that they were finding on their own. They just needed decks. We took those cards out of the furnace and lent them to them. NFTy failed to deliver. Remember, NPE was a distant dream when NFTy told us what the could do with these decks. The team didn't fail NFTy. NFTy just wasn't able to deliver and its time to do what we voted on last year and burn these decks.
It does more harm than good to remove the cards and NFTy arcade, if anything working with NFTy and whatever exposure gained by them helps. It's a third party service and it would be better for us if they can get the service to work in crypto gaming if the market starts heating up again going into the halving.
I never advocated for removing NFTy. I'm advocating for burning these cards and having players who've invested in cards which are now sitting idle to make the decks for NFTy instead. This was NFTy's business model before Aggy decided to try this. NFTy doesn't need these 500k packs in order to exist or run their business.
Creating use cases for existing assets should be everyone's goal if they want Splinterlands to thrive.
To be clear, NFY did not fail. SPL the company failed here. Reasons are numerous.
To be clear, NFTy told us they could bring in gaming guilds on their own. They told us they sat on their discord everyday turning people away because they didn't have the decks. They told us if we gave them the decks, they'd do the rest. The company gave them access to the decks. NFTy failed to deliver on what they told us they could do on their own.
Go back and listen to the townhalls when Tyler was on back in Jan/Feb.
We had NO new player experience, that's how we failed on our end. They could attract new players and they would leave because the NPE was absolutely awful at the time. And we DO have the responsibility to work with these third party services for mutual benefit. We didn't hold up our end of the deal. A deal like this ALWAYS goes two ways.
Tyler told us flat out they had a great retention rate with Splinterlands already. We never told them we'd change the new player experience. In fact at the time the team was saying it was probably many months to a year away since everything was set to change. They were saying if we made anything for enw players it would be outdated immediately. And still NFTy said they'd bring in a bunch of new players in the 3-4 month trial period.
They told us that probably before our game took multiple appalling decisions wrecking the value of rewards instead of preventing multi accounting bots from draining all our coffers. Before the rewards we had invested in cards to earn became "soulbound." Perhaps it's also on us a bit.
I see no benefit to burning these cards at this time. So I'm voting no.
I encourage people to give me a valid reason to burn them vs. sitting right where they are right now.
When we set this whole thing up, the idea was NFTy has the access to bring in tons of new players. They just needed the assets and they would be signing on major gaming guilds. I (and many others) was fully against saving these decks for this and said then that players should be building them with their excess cards. But the compromise was, let's just try it for 3 or 4 months and if it doesn't work, we'll burn them. No harm done.
These cards have no reason to exist if this isn't working. We voted to burn them. We compromised on a 3 month reprieve. It's been extended to a year now. By all rights they should have been burned long ago like we voted them to be and like we were told they would be.
There's nothing stopping card owners from building decks and sending them to NFTy except the existence of these cards. We certainly have enough cards just sitting around unused. I'd much rather see the cards owned by players used than these cards that no one ever invested in.
Finally, Matt has already said in order to really get the flywheel going for real, he thinks we need to cut all this fat and burn all this excess. He includes cards in that. I agree and I I include these cards in that because their existence removes usefulness from other cards.
That's my reasons 🤷♂
Thank you for your reply @imno. I understand why you feel that way. I guess we just differ on the risk/reward here. I'm viewing continuing it forward as we have nothing to lose and something to gain, whereas you feel its important to burn them so that it will help people perceive a lower supply. NOTE: I don't think if they are in the nftybronze acct or the null account, it makes any difference at all in reality (but I can see where people perceive its different)
Two reasonable people can come to different conclusions based on their perspective. And on this one we will just have to disagree. I love your passion on this and many topics though, and again thank you for the explanation of your thought process.
Well its not just about perception. When NFTy was warming up and Tyler was coming onto the townhalls last year, we were continually told they needed diamond decks. They couldn't keep diamond decks on the shelf.
I wanted to make some decks for them but all they ever asked for were diamond decks and I couldn't do that. I could have made several bronze decks for them and maybe a few silver but they never said they needed them.
Then Aggy hatched this plan and I was irked. There are SOOO MANY CL cards (even more now) that are doing nothing. Had they told us, I think many of us could have created decks for NFTy but now that they opened 500k packs for this, the demand for lower level decks was smothered by supply. And none of that supply came from the massive oversupply of cards we already had.
To me, we should burn these cards because if we do, there's room for asset owners to use our cards to build these decks. My whole thing is find a use for assets or find a way to get rid of them. If we believe NFTy has promise, this is a perfect opportunity to use all these cards we're holding onto, but only if we get rid of the ones that no one ever invested in first.
i see it like this aswell.
i would vote YES when the cards/packs would be send to the dao to serve other purposes later.
It's a small amount of packs there and at least visitors know about the game and hop into Splinterlands. So let's keep it that way.
I'm fully onboard with this. Remove them and burn them like was agreed upon when this was set up. I disagree that they are not hurting the ecosystem by sitting there. Even if its just morale when looking at the number of circulating copies when thinking about buying a card. Perception is everything.
Card owners are free to create decks and lend them to NFTy. We definitely have enough cards floating around that need to be put to use. The more of the card base that's being used, the better. So let's use cards players own instead of this ghost deck.
Finally, the partnership did fail. NFTy told us they would be onboarding tons of players with those decks. It wasn't set up as we'd send players over. They told us they had big plans and were signing huge guilds and all the stuff. The deal was that we lend them the assets they need and they onboard hundreds or thousands of new players.
When Aggy suggested this we agreed based on NFTy's ambition and reach and because Aggy said if it didn't work in a few months, we'd burn the cards so there was nothing to lose. Its been a year. It failed. So let's follow through and burn the cards.
Also, when did these become DAO owned cards? Chaos Legion had nothing to do with the DAO. These were lent by the company. Why would the DAO get the DEC? Am I misremembering something?
These need to be burned and then the DEC needs to be burned. When we voted to burn these packs, there was no DEC coming out of it. There shouldn't be DEC now just because we opened them. When we voted to try this, the deal was if it didn't pan out in a few months, we'd burn them and its like it never happened. Adding 70 million DEC into circulation/the DAO coffers, wasn't part of it.
I agree with Imno. 500'000 CL packs were transferred to NFTY! 500'000 packs (which should have been burned according to the DAO vote btw)! This is 3.33% of the total CL packs supply.
About 440,000 CL packs were opened resulting in the minted of:
36,038,870 CP - nftybronze account
31,316,870 CP - nftysilver account
So it's clearly not only 20 decks. Probably 20 decks are available for rent and other cards are just sitting there.
60'000+ CL packs were never opened and are sitting on the balance of the nftybronze account.
imo above mentioned packs/numbers are hurting to an already oversupplied/overprinted set.
Moreover,
P.S. Sorry all for my paltry 50 cents.
Wait, no reason to burn these yet. I do think that they should be burned eventually though. But for now they could come in handy for NPE improvement.
How? I think we can always look to a hypothetical future as a reason not to do what the DAO voted to do over a year ago. Do you have something in mind that would make these useful?
Mainly as starter decks for new players so they don't have to suffer the horrors of bronze without at least a decent deck.
I vote no. The macro markets are frothing for the next positive wave, which is bound to bring more people back into the crypto space in general; I don't see the point in burning & calling it a failure right as the heavy bear markets' cycle end is nigh. In comparison to the liquid packs & cards players own, Nftys decks/spare cards are quite trivial in my mind, and would serve a better purpose for the next wave of adoption/new players entering the space in the future.
No point in burning. They aren't doing any damage sitting idle. If for some reason NFTy shuts down and are no longer in need of the cards, there is still no point in burning them. Keep them, let them sit idle and sometime in the future they might serve a different purpose or even a similar purpose in which they were intended for.
I am totally in support of this! Where do I go to vote on it?
I think you can just like the post. Or you can go to https://peakmonsters.com/proposals and vote on it there.
When did these cards become the property of the DAO? Why should the DAO get DEC for cards burned that were owned by the company and were set to burn as packs. No one ever bought these packs. They were set to burn. They should burn. And any DEC created from them should burn.
It was the agreement agg made when he did this whole experiment. They would either be burned or become the property of the DAO. He is no longer the CEO, so we're defaulting to "become the property of the DAO."
i would prefer not to burn the cards/pack, but to send them all to the dao.
they can be burned later or serve better purposes like in promo events or in case bull market really kicks in and we have a huge spike in new players the dao could delegate these decks to new players for a short period of time to tease them to buy assets.
for the proposal as it is now i tend to vote NO.
if it changes to transfering all to the dao and not to burn id give it a YES.
Thank you for participating in SPS DAO Governance @clayboyn!
You can place or monitor SPS Stake Weighted votes for and against this proposal at the link below:
Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2023-12-01 12:48 UTC
Should've been burned a long time ago
I think loaning them in the first place was a mistake and I think the platform left a lot to be desired. I think we knew this was gonna fail, we absolutely knew SPL dropped the ball with NPE and had no plans to correct that (IMO, NPE should be a high priority and done prior to bull).
All of that said, I am not sure how I feel at this time, burning vs not burning, and need time to soak it in.
uhm maybe I don't understand this but where or who bought all of these decks in the first place? Are they legitimate buys? If they are then we shouldn't be burning them just because we don't agree with something that sounds like a REALLY bad road to go down.
Agg created them to try out a partnership with NFTy. The deal was they'd be burned or become the property of the DAO. People have complained about them the whole time, so since he's no longer CEO, we're having a vote to put the issue to bed.
Burning the NFTy's decks is a terrible idea. They are one of the few ways that new starters can try the game. It needs more promotion, no destruction.
I use the SPS-decks for Gold Level Play. Is the SPS-decks different than the NFTY decks that were gifted from the DAO? I understand that there are no @nftygold decks, but not sure what the difference is. Thanks!
Clayboyn,
I understand that a previous agreement may have been made but as a CEO your thoughts should be focused on how to change the past and look to the future... not remove it.
There is a real opportunity to turn the relationship around with this company HOWEVER, everyone needs to understand that contact with them is very limited from what I can tell.
Please do correct me if I am wrong but the current proposition is to remove/burn these cards?
the correct way to handle this in my opinion would be to withdraw the deal, retract the cards, use them as rewards to genuine accounts that bring in genuine players. (or were these cards literally 'given' rather than 'loaned'? if so my below will be irrelevant)
This can be achieved by spreading said cards on a loaned basis to smaller groups/clans that are potentially able to use these cards to further draw small numbers of players to the game.
I may well have miss understood, if that is the case then please do correct my above comments.
Just from my point of view, with recessions, market stalemates over the last several years, it is easier for dedicated smaller teams with minor long term rewards to bring in fresh real players than 1 company attempting/claiming to do so.
smaller groups offer far more personalization and far better levels of interaction. this entire project from my view was based on advertising rather than what it should have been about, which is personal engagement?
FYI I have reached out to the company in order to try and arrange a more direct approach of contact and communication.
If only 1 or 2 of the decks are currently rented, then I don't actually see this as a huge deterrent to card ownership. I would think that maybe it is still a good idea to keep them around and try to build new player onboarding information to specifically take advantage of this available asset. Hopefully, the NFTy interface improves a bit between now and then, but as long as new players can use this resource, I think it is better to keep it.
i suggest not to burn but we do retract them. I'd like to keep them for some ghost tournaments that grants the top x a delegated deck for a season: e.g silver and gold diamond and champion tournament. That way i as a silver player could for example participate in a gold ghost tournament and get a gold cl deck for 1 season. that way we could for maybe also burn a bit of sps so that only active players can play (50 sps to participate?)
i feel if we voted to burn then we should do that and not set a precedent we will regret, Seems like a band aid situation rip it off and encourage players to loan out to NFTy. we gotta make some moves that are not enjoyable to get the focus to a manageable amount. Get through alot of suck in a short amount of time even if it does't benefit the players everytime,we might just need to take a big lump of suck on a few items that could hurt a bit and if we can get over a few in next month we can hit the fun parts of bull run and be better off in long run. jhust my opinion not saying im right but don't feel too wrong either.
I think we burn these like we originally said. If there's a big demand for decks there then players will put their own decks on the platform to earn. The market will work itself out. I believe we didn't receive accurate information about the demand for decks there at all and we need to remove as much supply of CL as we can.
Ihmo I don't see any other reason for this vote exept personal benefits of it. If those decks anytime in the future can bring even few players into the game it will be beneficial for all of us. We should all try to bring new players all the time and be sad as I'm when the company is not able to do.