You may have noticed a new form of vote-buying / gambling appear on Steemit in the past week.. Following in the footsteps of @steemsports, the account @steemygames has started up a new highly ridiculious (my opinion) "game" where they pick 2 well known STEEM users and pit them against each other in a popularity contest based on physical appearance.
Here is a short little excerpt from their write up:
"Steemians, we get it, sports aren't for everyone. That's why we are trying our best to engage the whole community, today we're bringing you a new edition of the 'The Steemy Games'. We need you to vote on who you think is 'Steemier'. And, it's not because we are shallow, but because we love to have fun! Let's keep this entertaining and show the world the vibrant and playful community Steemit.com is!"
What sticks out to me in this more so than anything is that this new "game" goes against the very words they speak in the articles.. "It's not because we are shallow" ... Well, last time I checked judging ANYONE on their appearance is basically just as shallow as you can get.
Using STEEM Users Identity Without Permissions..
(REVISED: New evidence has been brought fourth supporting permissions were granted)
Revised Content:
While all of this looked incredibly grim in regards to permissions given by the user featured in the "Steemygames" I've been fortunate enough to be shown some evidence supporting the claim that 100% of the users featured did indeed give permissions for their likelyhood to be used. Below is a screencap shared with me from @walden and @cassandra showing them obtaining permission from Mrs. Steemit to feature her in their games:
This proves (to me anyways) that at least Mrs.Steemit did in fact give permissions for her likeness to be used in the "steemygames". The pictures used were lifted from her Instagram by the folks running the games so it IS in fact feasible that the picture of Mrs.Steemit at 16 was simply saved along side other pictures offered there.
I would like to thank @walden and @cassandra for bringing fourth this evidence of permissions. This solves a decent part of the problem I'd perceived with this style of posting. If you read the original content of this post below you may be able to see how I'd been weary that permissions had been given. I'll leave the original content below for reference, although the factuality of my presumptions are not as concrete as I'd believed given the evidence brought forward above.
Bravo, I hate admitting I was wrong but in this case I very likely was. While asking users permissions does alleviate a large portion of what I viewed as wrong with these @steemgames and @steemsports offering there are still a few points below that I still very much stand behind.
Original Content: (Evidence Above Supports This Bit Below May Very Well Be Wrong)
Another point that sticks out in my mind in regards to this new fangled bullshit "steemygames" is that the author of these posts seemingly hasn't taken into consideration the people featured's feelings nor seemingly gotten permission to use their likeliness in any way shape or form.
Ask yourself this: If someone grabbed a few pictures of you online then without your permission decided to stick you in a competition against some other user in some asinine and childish popularity contest would you be accepting of this?
The persons responsible for the continuation of this immature/needless display of competition and community destabilization really needs to consider a few things here.. Is the money you're making from these posts worth the potential hurt feelings and upset the losing parties may face in this? Do you honestly think it's acceptable to compare people based strictly off of looks alone? If you answered yes to any of these, you're probably an asshole.
Simply put, these steemygames aren't something we should support on the network. Why? Because little to NO consideration has been given to people's feelings nor was permission asked by the perpetrators behind this needless garbage money grab.
on this postThe tip off to this shit going on for me was when @mrs.steemit ended up commenting that the picture that @steemsports had used of her likeness was over 4 years old.. Putting her at age 16 or so at the time I believe when the picture was taken...
So @steemsports posted a picture of a 16 year old mrs.steemit and had the community unnknowingly vote on the "hottness" of a minor compared to another woman.. Does anyone else see something wrong with this entire "steemygames" shitshow now?
These "Games" Have a Very Real Emotional Price
If you think that these games are all in fun.. I ask you to check out this screencap below, it's a mere taste of the belligerent incoming hatred that these games are capable of spawning:
The Steemy Games: Craig Grant vs Mr WangFrom one of the original @steemsports posts that started this stupidity:
(Names edited because who said this is irrelevant, Clearly there is hurt here because of this childish voting game)
Now in no way am I ostracizing or judging the user who commented this above. It pains me to see one of our own users lash out with hurt feelings caused by assholes who simply put value money and votes over the feelings of others...
What the fuck is wrong with you @steemsports / @steemgames?
I Don't Often Make Ultimatums... But..
Smarten up, STEEM is About Building people up, Not Tearing Them Down
Now, you could go on the flip side and say "Well, @KLYE, you asshat, You look like you're ripping into these game hosts pretty hard.. Sorta looks like you're an asshole."You're right, I am. Call me a hypocrite if you'd like! But sitting on the sidelines and watching my budding STEEM society be de-stabilized by users / groups that frankly don't give a shit about people or consider their feelings isn't something I'll sit on the sidelines and watch.
This is your very clear message to cease and desist. Frankly I don't give a fuck who you are or how you justify your actions. They are completely childish and unacceptable and if you continue, simply put, I'll have the community turn against you. What you're doing, knowingly or unknowingly, is opening up the door for conflict within our community all stemmed from hurt feelings caused by your inability to act as decent human beings.
As a species we REALLY need to move away from the whole "judging" others and throwing each other underneath the bus in the name of "competition". It's needless at best.
TL;DR: "Steemygames" is Childish and Breeds Conflict
Please stick to sports guys for your drain on the daily reward pool... :/
Vote @klye for Witness!
https://steemit.com/~witnesses
A Proud STEEMbassador of Canada
Thank you for your votes, the opportunity and support!
Hahaha, Holy Hate-Flags Batman!
I'm honoured some of you feel so strongly as to flag this post! While not exactly the reaction I was going for, your flags show me I've still a long ways to go with my communication and investigative journalism. Admittedly I jumped the gun assuming that @steemsports hadn't gotten permission to use Mrs.Steemit's pictures based off of what I saw in the comments.
However, Those of you actually reading the post and looking past the 1 error in the original piece realize that the other points raised in this article are in fact problematic. While it does come down to a question of morality at the end of the day and peoples morals differ, I still 100% stand behind what's been said in regards to the juvenile nature of these steemygames.
You've every right to flag this post if you don't agree with it. While initially I was upset when this post received flags at the end of the day it simply doesn't matter. I've spoken my peace, corrected the mistakes I made in it and ultimately I hold no ill will against any person or organization mentioned. While I don't agree with what you guys are doing it's your own life to live and morality to forge. Wishing everyone happiness in the future.
I just want to state the following:
Hi Dan, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response:
https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts, it is also important to note that founders need to be very careful when they get involved in the community to express their views, the re-steem of this inflammatory post created a problem for our brand and was unfounded.
When a founder weighs in, it carries emotive weight and can divide a community, so it is important the founder informs himself of all sides of the arguements. At the same time, founder involvement if, positive can drive a community forward, if you look at the example of https://gnosis.pm/, the parent blockchain, Ethereum, founder Vitalik has allowed himself to be positively associated with the project.
https://steemsports.com is a turnkey project you have at your community's disposal right now that can grow into something spectacular to boost the value of Steem, it is up to you if you want to wield it to help make Steem a greater "coin" than Ethereum or not depending on your personal actions going forward.
The element of chance is that the voting is secret, nobody knows what the community will vote in the secret ballot poll, the voting on the comments(bets) is separate Dan.
How is the voting secret? It's all on the blockchain right?
The voting is in an external poll, and the betting is in the comments.
This is explained in the rules of the game:
"Step 1: Open the external poll link and cast your secret ballot!
Step 2: Bet on who the general community thinks is "Steemiest" in the comments below."
Oh, that's interesting. I didn't realize the rules were different from regular steemsports. Thanks for the explanation.
Thank you for weighing in @dantheman
I'm still waiting to see walden's proof of permissions evidence before moving any further with this.
Honestly I hope permissions were sought out here but the whole Mrs. Steemit supplying her own pictures in the comments thing certainly goes against what I would say permissions are. Thanks for the resteem.
@klye, hey next time, it would be good to reach out and find out if permission was granted. It's not good to have misleading information. If I were you, I would add an edit at the end making sure that people know they had permission......that still doesn't explain the one old photo by mrssteemit though.
Well. In order to go talk to these people I'd have to go into Steemspeak, Which frankly after sitting in on for a while isn't really a place I feel welcomed nor is it the crowd I'd prefer to align myself with. There are some good people in there for sure.. But also the odd person that for lack of a better term don't seemingly have a lick of self control nor any higher train of thought besides themselves and their own wallets.
In the future I'll likely do more research into the matter before posting about it..
A little rusty on the whole whistleblowing detective role clearly.. However I still stand behind the fact I think these games are childish bullshit and shouldn't be supported when they pit users against eachother..
Even with full permissions given it's childish. :/
i agree with you, i was only trying to be a helpful person...
You are helpful!
(meaning I'm as batty as a cave and as nutty as peanutbutter)Always keep in mind when dealing with me.. That I am @KLYE ..!
Hopefully you didn't read that in the wrong tone. I meant no meanyness in that whatsoever.. Text is a terrible medium for me to express myself. D:
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
I personally have mixed feelings about both steemsports and steemygames. And although I have a lot of respect for smooth and his contributions, I very often disagree with his use of the flag. However, in this case I feel it's 100% appropriate for all of the reasons he listed. This post is so over the top and full of misinformation and false/wild accusations, it's hard to believe. If you disagree with the idea of steemsports or steemygames, there are more responsible and constructive ways to voice your opinion. You've earned a VERY rare flag from me.
Fair enough Tombstone. I respect your flag. It is your vote to cast.
Personally I think smooth is getting hung up on one error I made and seemingly that debunks everything else I said. I can understand some of what he is saying for sure but the fact of the matter is people are being farmed (with permission!) to increase the posters rep / STEEM.. in the form of juvenile beauty pageants. :/
It's secret writer all over again. Simply with a different name.
The Steemygames Gimmick is a poor man's Hot or Not.
True story
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
So was the Facebook in its earliest days. Arguably one of the most viral aspects of facebook was the rating of hotness on campus. Now im not personally advocating shallowness but noone with an ounce of understanding in psychology can doubt the power of sex to sell. Hell i am kind of happy that we are sexual beings and maybe its a good thing that we see so much of it that it loses some of its "power" over us. However that always comes with the caveat that the people being part of marketing and initiatives like this should always be willing and voluntary participants.
For me the sleaze factor is the fact that Steemers involved are selling other Steemian's sex appeal for their own profit. That's pretty gross. If halo and denvermax had set it up themselves, like a joint venture, that would still be juvenile, but not juvenile and gross.
100% agree.
Man's misogyny at it's finest... But for profit!
sleazy middlemen operations......
I even questioned the Twins, about risking their reputation by involving themselves with Walden. (because of the way he treats people in steem.chat and on discord. My question didn't make them happy, but I don't think they had any bad intentions. I don't think they misled anyone involved.We discussed this in Steemspeak on discord, and although I agree it is a lame contest, I do know @mrwang wasn't mad, and I did hear Walden asking people he was trying to get involved for permission. I do believe he received permission before doing any of these.
I think voting on people based on four pictures, especially in the case where horny sounding comments are made is lame. However, I will say, I don't think anyone involved was just randomly adding pictures of people or had any malice.
I don't know how Mrs.Steem felt about the pictures that were taken from her instagram, but I don't think anyone knew she was 16 at the time of the photo. She did tell them to grab the photos according to a screen shot here.
Per usual, I think having the discussion is a good thing.
Thanks for your feelings on the matter whatsup.
The evidence is pointing to they did get permission to use people's likeness. I've revised my initial post to bring fourth the evidence that they'd given to me. In no way do I want to look for reasons to start chaos nor conflict.
Simply put I was expressing my concern on a matter that bothered me. I'm glad I was wrong for part of it actually.
Regardless though of permissions granted I still think the whole thing is a pile of shit moneygrab with little thought given to those involved in the competitions.
Does Steemit need this sort of shit to thrive? Absofuckinglutely not.
Might be something a teenage crowd would be interested.. But I think for the most part we're all adults on STEEM.. and if we choose to revert back to acting like children and judging people based solely on physical appearance may as well just go fuck around on FB / Twitter.
The society being shaped here won't accept this sort of shit if I've any part of it.. Which I believe I do.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
I didn't doubt that. But thank you for posting.
I did have a rant here about how it would be copyright infringement, however it's clear that the facts as presented were not correct. thus I retract my previous statements.
Well, that's not direct release, but close, maybe on future posts you may want to ask specifically for permission to use the images and then include image attribution and copyright information with the post, just to clear up any possible confusion.
Thank you @walden - I'll add this to the post and revise it slightly.
As triddin mentioned above that wouldn't hold up as consent in court but it's a step in the right direction knowing you'd asked first I guess.
As you can see in the screenshot, it wasnt me asking nor selecting the pics.
Aye.. You're cleared by the looks of it walden..!
I like the food idea or cars or something for the games.. Will support those if you ever make em up.. But as for pitting users against eachother I can't get behind that. :/
every single person in the games gave permission and approval to use their pictures,
most even selected their pictures.
As mentioned below if you could bring fourth some provable evidence to back this claim up would be awesome man. Honestly I'd love to see that all permissions were given and that the users picked their own pictures but it doesn't make much sense given the circumstance and what's already on the table.
You're 100% correct.
They are making money using others property and likeness without permission.. :/
Doesn't that means they could be sued in most jurisdictions for both copyright and portrait right infringements by the ones who don't want to see their photos used like this?
I was under the impression these people gave him permission...
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Mildly flagged because the comment is pointless now that it is clear there was no copyright infringement; the images were used with permission. People really need to pause and not be so quick to join lynch mobs on the basis of incorrect and poorly researched "facts"
You are of course correct. I have edited my prior post to indicate that the falsity of my original argument which was based off an incorrect assumption.
I also appreciate that the kid gloves slap you gave me could have been much, much worse. Thanks for not obliterating me.
It was a good rant triddin! But I did drop the ball and not have all the evidence I needed to make a proper case.. Sorry about that man. :/
It's all good man (or woman perhaps?), you're not completely to blame. Any image use, or use of another user's copyrighted material is supposed to be correctly licensed and attributed. It's like rule #1 in the Steem rule book. In this case it wasn't attributed and the comments seemed to make the case that it wasn't above board. It's just an unfortunate situation. I still agree with you that it's in poor taste, but that's nothing against the rules, so just need to suck it up.
Eh, Appreciate it. :)
I jumped the gun and thought I saw something that wasn't there. In the future I'll either be 150% sure or just keep my foul mouth shut I guess.
Tis in poor taste, but so was my post in regards to how I didn't fully investigate before pulling the trigger.
Cheers Sir.
Nah, Berniesanders is actually pretty damn reasonable from my dealings with him. I know not everyone feels the same but I've 0 beef with the guy and likely could ask him to stop voting on these personally and see results...
I may do that actually.
I checked out BS too just because he is the most controversial stake holder here, and klye is right, bern dont support pedophilia, pizzagate, ogoling miners (underage girls being compared sexually to legal sexable creatures). Frankly this is sick. I support free speech, and downvote pedofilia, and steemsports promoting underage sex should be listing in the nsfw because people can get fired for this kind of shit. Steemit is jumping the shark it appears. Why? Because we only have a tiny community and we are addicted to gambling, sex(nsfw), and now pedofilia thanks to our most successful business, steemsports
Yuck
Steem makes it free to communicate and ask other steemians if their likeness can be used. What is their excuse for not asking. I assumed that mrs steemit and ssj both submitted their own photos and were involved in the process and having fun. . I didnt know it was some sick sex fetish. Steem makes it so free and easy to communicate with peers that i assume communication is always being done
Inclined to agree with you that this whole situation is kind of shit.
@berniesanders may not be the most popular power user on the platform but he's never done anything wrong to me and he seems stand up enough in regards to what he feels is right to protect the platform from garbage.
If they did indeed get permission and the users supplied photos and agree'd to be in the competition.. It's still kind of stupid in my opinion. But would be far less crappy than how it looks now.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
It's done now. You won't see @berniesanders voting on steemsports posts anymore.
Behold the power of communication and community!
I think he flagged you for not believing he was capable of being decent.. He is.. I know this because I've talked to him and he's always been civil with me.
But fuck I wouldn't put up with people slandering me either to be honest. Calling people corrupt certainly isn't a way to make a mends.
He's got the right and power to flag stuff and he does.. Not sure why folks get upset over people using the site's mechanics to defend themselves or what they want the platform to be.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Great @berniesanders !
Ya'll act like whales are above your average person.. lol.
IF you take the power users off their SP pedestals they are humans just like you or I.
Completely capable of being reasoned with and finding understanding.
Like when? Ive flagged accounts that bernie supported before. He flagged me back when i explained my vote in comments (which i thought was shitty and i told him so in chat). and it ended there... hes even upvoted a few of my comments since.
I've never had a problem with the guy really. And if I ever did I'm sure I could talk to him and come to an understanding rather than flag-fucking eachother. lol
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Another clueless troll who has no clue what he's talking about. In fact, I just removed my votes from @steemsports as I find posting photos of a 16 year old pretty fucking disturbing. Until there's an explanation and at least an apology to the community I will no longer be supporting @steemsports and I sure as shit won't be supporting this bullshit by @walden.
Excuse me Sir, Every single person in the games provided consent and permission,
in the case of Mrs Steemit, as you can see in the screenshot above she spoke to Cassandra from the SPT who was cowriting that particular game, and it was her who selected the pics from Mrs Steemit instagram, as requested by Mrs Steemit herself.
@noisy, Honestly, I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I'm not much of a writer and I find most of the content on here to be pretty lackluster and not the least bit engaging. I also believe the rewards and how they're distributed is up to the community and shouldn't be controlled by implementing more changes in a fork. Steemit has the ability to control what is displayed on their website, but they do not have control over how the blockchain is used. Until there is a better idea than steemsports for the use of the blockchain rewards, it's going to continue to dominate the reward pool and I don't think that's something you can blame them for or should try to discourage. I think it would be a better use of time to try to develop something more enticing for the community to use their votes towards but right now I'm not seeing much on the horizon.
Here's a link that's also about the rewards pool and @steemsports which is my main concern 😉
https://steemit.com/witness-category/@fyrstikken/the-big-voting-game-change-proposal
You are excused.
having you here, I am really curious what you think about solution for "steemsports problem", which I described here in my comment
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Thank you @berniesanders for the reply. <3
It doesn't sit well with me either.. regardless of permission granted the fact the community was unknowingly voting on the "hotness" of a picture of an underaged young woman.. Not very good for PR. :/
I dont think it sits well with anyone if the pictures are of a 16 year old..
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
It all boils down to whether the 2 steemers involved were willing participants or not. If not, then I agree that this is poor form, if both parties agreed then it's a case of, if you don't like it scroll on. Shouldn't be too hard to find the answer.
All the people in the steemy games gave their permission to be featured.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
You are so right @klye ! Especially about these betting and sports pools , which are draining the daily rewards pool ! These guys are rakeing in a bundle and even if you win a bunch of games the payout is usually under a dollar in the pennies ! While they make hundreds ! Something needs to be done about @steemsports and especially @steemygames ! Very childish and in the end we are all loosers because of the drain on the pool ! And the sooner the better ! Steem on! 🔊🔊🔊
U want to end steemsportz. Ez. Set up a competitor with half the rake. Poof. Instant darwinism. But since nobody is choosing to compete with them, then nobody really HATES steemsports.
Hahaha ! Great answer ! I hope someone does , if the competitor has half the rake that would definitely put them in their place! I know nothing about these things , but I'm sure someone here does ! 😉👍
I wanted to create completely non-profit game, which will transfer all (powered-down SP) with a script, every week. For sure, that would be better, but I didn't want to pollute trending page even more.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Nobody can compete with auto whale votes, no matter what the cut.
I have no particular allegiance to any one of these games. I have voted for other ones and if someone made as serious an effort as Steemsports to invest in developing their concept, promoting it, and trying to expand the reach of Steem/it, but did so with half the rake, I would vote for that as well.
The reason no one is doing this is likely that Steemsports has put and continues to put a ton of work by a team of 7 people. Their total SP earned at this point from what you are calling rake but I would call their post rewards is around $17000. I do not think you will get a flood of people and teams looking to do the same for a lot less.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
I'm not saying we outright shit-flag all of these guys posts yet.. Give them some time to change before pulling out the "big guns".
But I know I feel the same way a lot do on this platform.. With that being said I can and will use my followers base to spread the word of injustices going on within our network.
@steemsports and @steemgames are both very much in my cross-hairs at the moment.. They deserve far more scrutiny and kuestioning about their morality and business ethics then they currently receive..
True to that ! And alot of us agree ! So keep up the great work ! I'm home from work and in bed now on my tablet ! lol ! The life of a graveyard shift worker , sleeps all day hahaha! Blogs all night ! Will check your progress later today ! Good luck !👍😉
Here's a link I read about the rewards pool being drained ! from @fyrstikken ! And is actually my main concern https://steemit.com/witness-category/@fyrstikken/the-big-voting-game-change-proposal
It is unfortunate so much of the author rewards are pillaged by steemsports.. I hope they introduce off chain betting soon
Indeed ! 😉✌👍
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Ok read your response thanks for providing the link ! Steeming on !😉♨👍
Could not agree with you more. Especially as a woman, I prefer to be judged by my quality content rather than my appearance. However, we see on the internet that many women have had Instagram success by engaging in this very kind of behavior...and subsequently their photos are used by others to objectify them. Is this just a side effect of the internet? Does every beautiful woman who posts a photo of herself automatically sign off on those posts being used for or against her? Most would argue yes, but I think it's a much larger ethical issue that we will see debated heavily on upcoming years.
Also, I did see it as free promotion for those accounts picked to be involved. I'm sure those accounts gained followers and perhaps even larger dividends as a result of the viral nature of the posts...and while I am inherently opposed to the concept and idea...I have to be totally and hypocritically honest when I say that I wondered what the criteria was to get the attention.
The "Instagram model" pull can be very real for a lot of women who are seeking recognition and monetary rewards in traditionally male-dominated areas, and sexy selfies sell. I've often wondered when/if that objectification was going to penetrate this platform. It's happening with the porn...it's happening with steemygames.
I'm not trying to justify anything here, but unfortunately that's the way men are built. To objectify not just women, but also other men.
Who do you think buys bodybuilder magazines? It's men. When they make a movie and have the hero (or heroine) all dressed up with close fitting armour and visible muscles everywhere, who do you think that's for? That's right, it's for the guys watching the movie.
There are some women (and men) out there who have the bodies to be able to play on this, and while it's mildly offensive to me, it's probably not for the same reason as it is for you and other women.
I find it offensive because I prefer substance, over form, and if I'm honest probably a small extent because I like to think I'm above such superficialness. It's not because I don't find them attractive, or can't see why they would be attractive to other males. I see the gloss as an act of subterfuge, and I don't like being manipulated. I really don't like the fact that I can't help being manipulated, regardless of my awareness of it.
It's not going to make an ounce of difference however. Sexuality sells, and most guys don't care, just so long as they can see the outline of a boob and a good set of curves and imagine themselves with them, or triceps, biceps and good set of abs and imagine themselves having them.
At the end of the day you're fighting against the nature of males and while I and many others are doing our best to take a stand and stand up against it and other injustice. To teach our sons the wrongness of it, and teach our daughters to be aware and wary of it (and self-defence classes for when that doesn't work), there's the opposite proponent out there that are doing exactly the opposite, and while I like to think the world is becoming an incrementally better place for my daughter to grow up in, I'm afraid at times that I'm simply delusional.
This.
Thank you for the reply and sharing your thoughts and feelings on the matter.
I'm very much against the objectification of women and pitting people against eachother in popularity contests.
Our entire planet is difficult enough to live on let alone some dickheads ripping our pics of the net and then having our peers judge us. We've already got enough judgement in the world going on.. Let's try and keep it off the front page of steemit.com ffs.
When a woman posts a "sexy" picture of herself in my classical psychology sense she'd be looking for adoration or attention.. Some re-affirmation that she is beautiful.. However once you have someone take that picture and use it without her permission for monetary gain.. Then that's a legal issue.
I do see the promotion point of things for sure as well now! Thanks for mentioning an angle I had not considered. Most humans have a streak of hypocrisy in them.. I've personally never met anyone who doesn't.
Perhaps it's just my age showing.. But I've never understood the whole instagram thing nor e-celebrities. It's sort of like me wondering to myself how the hell the kardashians are even known..
Our western society breeds stupidity and docile individuals while glorifying shitty behavior and people.. And while I may not be able to change the society I live in physcially I can certainly try and change our digital society starting up here on Steemit.
Thanks again for your share of thoughts and feels. This is what the platform was intended to house in my opinion... Not childish high school beauty pageants.
*edit: missed a word.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
You hit the nail on the head! man!
It is kind of nasty to watch.. Part of my work as witness on the STEEM platform is keeping my eyes open for bullshit like this. I'd honestly meant to do an article on it sooner but unfortunately hadn't had the time until this morning to type it up.
Hopefully they at the very least read this post and understand the unfortunate side effects their little games are causing and stop with them.. I'd rather not spend my day trying to morally police people that should know better. :P
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
it is nice to agree with you this time :)
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
We personally reached out to @mrs.steemit for consent in the games.
Thanks for bringing this to light. This is valuable!
Wouldn't actually "hold up" as consent anywhere but it does show you asked her atleast. Thank you. :)
This post has been ranked within the top 80 most undervalued posts in the second half of Dec 29. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $4.49 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.
See the full rankings and details in The Daily Tribune: Dec 29 - Part II. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in our initial post.
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Your main argument is that it is all done without permission of those people. I can guarantee you that every single one of the people who are in that competition gave a permission and most of them even sent the photos, which were used in the post. When people are looking for excuses to be hurt, they get hurt. Other from that, it is just entertaining. I was in one of those, and I frankly don't give a shit if I lost or won. No matter what, I still know that I am hot lol.
Aprat from that, I am not up for a discussion, which is doomed, because of sutbborness. I just wanted to say that your facts are wrong, but I still respect your opinion. If what you said was right, it would be definitely wrong to use someone else's photos without a permission. However, it is not the case this time, @klye. Just thought you would want to know.
Well, My main argument is that we're supporting anti-social behaviours and also supporting copyright infringement. The second argument would be this is a straight up money grab at the expense of others likelyhood. Third is the fact the STEEM community was unknowingly duped into voting on the sexiness of young woman who was 16 when the picture used was taken.
None of this sits well with me.
Maybe you're not an insecure person. Kudos to you. But I know damn well others featured in these bullshit steemygames have had real negative emotional responses. I don't think any of the facts I've put up here can be disproven. Infact if you look at it all it's impossible to say that permissions were fully given.
Mrs.Steemit's comment stating "these pictures are 4 years old" certainly goes against any form of permissions.
You can "debunk" me all you like, but anyone who's actually been paying attention to this shit developing will pretty quickly realize that nothing I've said in this post is misinformation nor fabricated.
If you find this entertainment, that's cool man. I can't take that from you. But some people consider fighting dogs entertaining too as well, which isn't humane.. So keep that in mind I guess.
mrs steemit provided permission, we have the chats and the emails,
again, every single person in the games gave permission and approval to use their pictures,
most even selected their pictures.
Then why does her comments speak the opposite of this?
I'm not calling you a liar but when I read the comments and see that pictures obviously were NOT provided by her (until you picked her teenage pic) then really it's a matter of looking at the evidence.
I don't believe for a moment Mrs. Steemit supplied a picture of herself at 16.. So if you'd like to re-think that statement probably for the better.
Fundamentally walden I know you're not a bad guy.
You've got good intent.
Regardless on if you received permission or not (which evidence points to you did not) this whole "steemygames" thing is childish, unnecessary and frankly some pretty low moral shit.
Now I've got nothing personally against you, I've seen the good work you do fighting plagiarists. But for fuck sakes man this isn't much better than them.
Just tell me how is someone putting their nudes in steemit is socialy correct, while this is not (take into account that people gave all the permissions). Also, I am discussing just for the sake of discussion, so be sure that I have no hard feelings, it does not affect me directly, so I am just defending the plain idea.
You are still thinking that permissions were not given, but they were. I have no idea what is the point for ppl to comment otherwise, but facts are facts. It only hurts your post's quality to provide false facts, even though, you might be arguably right in general.
as for the dogs fight, nobody ever asks dogs if they want to do it. Completely different thing. But once again, we all have different standards and morla norms. I am just sure that no one here wishes bad things to happen... just different pov.Yeah, I get what you say @klye. However, don't you think that someone who might get hurt in participating in beuty contest, should not give permissions to do so? I mean if you give permission with an idea that you will definitely win, and you lose, it is not platform's problem, is it? I have nothing to do with those games, apart from being in it, cause I don't find it THAT intersting.
... I like the way you thnk to be honest. Refreshing to read the opposite side of thought for sure.
I can't disagree with anything you've said above and I can certainly agree with tons of it. The permissions sadly is just a small part, same for the winner / loser thing.. Regardless of if peple consent they will still be affected (sometimes) if they lose.. You're too laid back to give a shit I get that.. But others featured in these sorta things haven't been. :/
Actually, it was Cassandra from the SPTwins that received consent and permission to use the pics directly from Mrs Steemit, we can show you the emails and chats if you want.....
For the sake of unbiased journalism and bringing everything to light for everyone I'd love to see this (as many others would as well).
It's only fair that you're allowed to bring your evidence fourth.
Not one for hosting kangaroo courts..! Everyone has the right to fairness.
Feel free to shoot the chat evidence somewhere into the comments here. I'm honestly interested to see if permissions were given.. and that if Mrs. Steemit actually gave you a picture of herself at 16 to be used in this ridiculous competition.
What lawform does steem fall under in order to infrige on copywright? Which court has jurisdiction?
Be the USA if I'm not mistaken, Steemit Inc is based out of there.
I'm no lawyer, surely someone on here could spell it out far more clearly.
It seems some rudimentary form of consent was given in a few cases here, hence the revision to the post. Although I'm not sure "lol sure" is really any form of consent that would stand up in any court.. <_<
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
I am flagging this for the following reasons:
This is not the way to express your disagreement with how others choose to post, vote, and particulate voluntarily in contests.
Regarding the picture of the 16 year old, I think this is overblown. There was nothing sexual about the contests and no one underage was participating anyway. The participant, who agreed to take part, is apparently 20 or so now, and suggested using a picture from her instagram (and presumably she has the rights to these pictures since she uploaded them to instagram). The picture that was chosen happened to be an older one. Maybe that wasn't the best idea, but let's not use your dislike for Steemsports as an excuse to blow this out of proportion as if it is some kind of kiddy porn. It isn't.
That's cool smooth. Nice to see that you're defending people who post images of 16 year old girls to be voted on for sexiness.
You're entitled to your vote / flag man.. But this certainly doesn't speak much for you.
You obviously didn't read nor understand this post. Absolutely no one else that disagreed with it flagged it.. So again, Doesn't say much for you.
Then please explain to me how one would raise concerns about this in a matter that doesn't make you turn into a bully?
Straight up dude, I thought you were a bit more level headed and understanding than this..
Obviously I made a wrong assumption about you.
Hope you reconsider your stance and actually fucking read the post. The part you're flagging me for has already been publicly cleared up.
edit: Well done bud. Your flag is a vote in favour for the objectification of under age women and selling others sex appeal for profits. The fuck is wrong with you.. <_<
First of all no. Sometimes a flag is just a flag.
Second, there is no "underage woman" involved here. The woman in question is an adult and agreed to participate. A picture was taken from her instagram (by her explicit instructions) and it turned out to be an older one that was from when she was 16. I don't know that anyone involved even knew this was the case, and it there no evidence it was deliberate. (Perhaps a better approach would have been to approach the author of the post, ask about the issue, and suggest the picture be replaced?) No one–neither me, nor as far as I can tell, Steemsports–is supporting objectification of 16 year olds or any such thing. You're making it into something that it isn't, in order to promote an agenda, and also to attract votes and make money from those sympathetic to the agenda, on the basis of a post that turned out to be wildly inaccurate.
You are all getting caught up on one point out of many raised being wrong here.. That doesn't invalidate the rest of it and it certainly doesn't make it any less problematic.
I'm simply calling it how I see it smooth. And for you to punish me with a flag and literally bury a post that needed to be seen (hell, our CTO resteemed this ffs) goes against everything I've seen you stand for in the past.
I apologize for getting upset with you, that was wrong of me to do so, but you've got to understand I'm not doing this out of spite, malice, for money or to stir the shit pot. This is honest concern and opinion being expressed and you took my sense of free voice away from me when you decided to flag the post because one of my facts didn't add up. (which I admittedly jumped the gun on, AND corrected as seen above).
What happened happened, I'm not mad at you. But I certainly do feel my freedom of speech has had an assassination attempt on it. In the future if I've got an issue with something I'm certainly going to be less inclined to write freely how I feel. :/
I decided to flag mostly because I didn't think that a post that attacks people and was poorly researched and largely retracted (with the remaining unretracted portion amounting to "I don't like these posts because of my version of morality") should earn a large reward.
It wasn't only one thing either. You claimed that @craig-grant was hurt by the contest, yet he replied here stating that he likes them and thinks they should continue. Again, if you are going to launch witch hunts based on alleged harms to people, at least check your facts and get it right.
I'd suggest we move on, put this mess behind us, and all focus on making Steem/it better in our own ways.
Well, the way I read the convo in that thread (the one screencapped in the post) it very much seemed to me Craig had hurt feelings. Perhaps I was wrong but when a mans starts talking about the poor vote and the money vote and whatnot that isn't a sign of taking a loss lightly. I believe he was effected by it emotionally in a negative way, regardless of how cool he's playing it now. :/
I do agree though smooth. It's been a long damn day. New personal record for replies to one post though! Regardless of how provocative or terribly researched it was.. I don't regret posting it and getting the discussion going in the comments..
Cheers man.
Has the thought ever crossed your mind that they didn't intentionally show a pic of her at 16 years old? My feeling is, had they known it to be the case, they wouldn't have used it.
I believe people from your neck of the woods will often refer to this as a "goof" (accident, mistake, etc.).
Sometimes it's fair to give the benefit of the doubt, especially on a "first offense". That being said, I agree with @smooth - this is far from being a case of "child pornography", which seems to be roughly how you're trying to angle it. Don't mistake this as me defending it, I do find the whole idea of voting on "hottness" to be creepy, TBH, I'm just trying to put a little perspective/ context on this.
Thanks @jamesbrown and @smooth for seeing the truth.
Please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
All the people in the steemy games gave their permission to be featured.
I only upvotes that once.
Didn't think is appropriate.
Hell No!!!
They shouldn't have making comparison.
Take them down and Nukes it.
Bad Practice
I've not been a fan of either offering to be fair.. @steemsports makes Steemit look like a sports betting site and @steemgames simply put it running childish beauty pageants. Neither of these things make our community look decent.
for me, I feel that both @steemsports and @steemgames appeal to the most base, lowest part of our lizard brains. There is no real inherent creativity, humor, surprise or intelligence contained within these two projects. There is so much bottom-dwelling stuff already on the internet, it just seems to drag down the reputation even further, driving away growth and investment. As a stakeholder, I have to make my honest opinions known. Selling human sex appeal for profit is very close to being a pimp.......pretty freaking low. Like @klye, I will not be supporting it, I will be discouraging it.
Feeling the same as you! And as woman i think this kind of competition doesn't make me want to be part of this. I'm sorry, i don't know the English English words to express al my bad feeling about this matter. I only want that this goes away! It's stupid !!
yes, there are many of us who feel the same way.
Hope those "we"are in bigger number than those others!!
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Can I put a Casino here?
I can start up a Steemit-Casino
The House always win !!
the joke is that Steemit was compared to a casino in the early days. It appears that Casino is sticking to this place like a piece of chewed gum.
exactly.
Exactly, don't make this community looks decent!! I will reestem, i don know other way to help, but if there is, please say!
All we can do is not vote on this type of behaviour really and hope it goes away.
I'll be contacting the "whales" that autovote these posts personally to ask them to re-consider supporting these sort of things.. Other than that not much one can do. :/
Thank you for the re-steem.
Ok. I upvote the first one in consideration to ms Steemit, but i thought the photos weren't the most appropriate. But the ones i saw yesterday... wtf! If whales are voting this kind of things they definitely should consider what kind of woman they want on Steemit. The ones contributing with good bodies or good content! For me it's easy to choose, i will stop recomending Steemit to my friends
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Already read your post...this situation got completely absurd with flags! I think @kyle had the courage to write about this contest, and I share some of his's opinions. I also searched for "http://steemyornot.com/" and I didn't see any woman doing its duck face or showing her intimacy. I definitely don't think @steemgames should put people on this kind of contest, and promote this kind of photos!
@kyle how do you know the images were used without permission? Just curious.
Mrs. Steemit coming on the comments and putting current pictures up of herself instead of ones where she was 16 was kind of the dead giveaway..
If they had permission to use pictures you think the users featured would have supplied images, don't you think?
not necessarily but it is definitely worth looking into. man this sucks if it is true. all it would have taken is like 10 minutes to track down and ask her...
Maybe. Just curious if you actually reached out to those people and asked. Thanks!
Why would she supply pictures if she didn't give permission? Think about it.
Why would they use pictures of her when she was 16? That's my rebuttal to that.
Shit simply doesn't make sense. Evidence is on the table though.
Agreed.. this is a different issue.. there is no circumstance where an underage picture in a contest like that is acceptable.
I'm not sure it was known she was a minor in the picture.. SO I'll give them the benifit of the doubt and hope they weren't aware of this.
But you're right.. Second we even entertain the idea of that sort of thing this platform will turn into 4chan and frankly I won't want to be part of that. :(
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
I WILL HELP YOU. I FIND THIS ENTIRE THING DISTASTEFUL AND I HAD NO IDEA THAT THEIR PHOTOS WERE USED WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION.
Thank you for your support Stellabelle!
I hate having to be "that guy" that raises the alarm but letting this activity go on without check isn't something I can do and still rest easy at night. With that being said we've got to allow some time for things to change before flipping the switch into full offensive mode. It's only fair to allow change we'd like to see.
If it doesn't happen, then yes, this will be escalated. Plenty of people are sick of this shit.
I'm glad you pulled the switch in your post! Someone has to be the one to do that. I hadn't really looked into the Steemygames deal too much, as I found it to be kind of disgusting and I avoided it!
They all gave permission and actually submitted the pictures. I dont think its distasteful - I think its juvenile - there is a difference. These girls objectify themselves on Steemit for votes all the time - this was just a marketing scheme for them and for the Craig Grant/ Mr. Wang post.. Its on a different account now and people are voting on these things in large numbers (not autovotes) . I personally find it very "high school" - but to each their own - thats the point of us voting for content isnt it? A variety of games are supposedly in the works - I personally welcome new games - I'm one of the people that actually enjoys @Steemsports (not simply for the pennies) but because I watch a lot of sports and I like to win. Its a guilt free way for me to enhance my sporting event. Thats why you see a lot of Toronto events- they aren't arbitrary teams - they are my teams. Ive put together over 40 of them. It has really enhanced my enjoyment of this platform. I also write content, I vote for others - and I respect differing opinions. As for the "whos hot/whos not contest" consenting adults willing to pit themselves against each other might seem disgusting to you - but who are we be the censor bureau? I find UFC distasteful, barbaric, (insert negative adjective) - but if idiots want to punch each other unconcious for money - who am I to tell them not to.
As a stakeholder, I have a right to express my opinion. If Steemit is heading into the direction of the entire trending pages just being these mindless voting games, then I'm not interested. It doesn't reflect what I'm into.
You own convertible debt.. not shares.. As I said - you have the right to your opinion - I dont care how much money you have - everyone's opinion is worth the same to me.
+1 rgeddes
You're basically right on all respects here, can't disagree with you!
Perhaps it's wrong of me to call out the juvenile behavior I see.. But at the same time as a witness I must actively shape the STEEM society in a way that makes it viable and sheds the dead weight dog eat dog mentality of western cultures..
Perhaps I've stepped a wee bit beyond my bounds here.. But at the end of the day I did what I felt was right for the community and I stand behind it.
Its always good to discuss the value of aspects of this platform. I am a sports guy, a writer, and entrepreneur. Most importantly I am also a Dad. So while I support SteemSports - I think the Steemyposts will officially stop - there are much more creative games that could appeal to a broader base. I've learned a lot from Steemit on what tolerance really is- "showing willingness to allow the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with". I didn't know you were a witness - I did know you were the only one with balls enough to leave a comment in protest of the first post (to my recollection). I think we've seen the end of the SteemyGames saga.. I personally find much of my pleasure on this platform writing about and picking sides on sports. I play fantasy sports, etc -its a big hobby for people- but its not for everyone. While I might disagree with you on the value of SteemSports (without the beauty pageant) - I think when you look at the spirit of this post there is probably a lot more we agree on than disagree regarding Steemit in general. I appreciate that some of us are able to disagree and still co-exist ;)
Well said sir.
Your points on tolerance are something I've noticed as well on the platform.
We're not a bad group here. We have our differences, perceptions and beliefs but really.. for the most part, good people.
I've sort of made a name for myself on Steemit by being the guy who speaks up on behalf of others. My view sometimes is slightly askew and often needs to be adjusted in order to see the full scope of things.. But that doesn't stop me from expressing what I feel, sometimes in a less than graceful manner.
Fantasy sports are HUGE. While not my cup of tea I completely get that some people really enjoy that sort of thing. Power to ya'll.
Aye, I am a witness, one of the few who actively tries to shape the very ecosystem we all are drawn towards. I might not always be right, and I accept that. Often people don't agree with me or what I have to say.. But that doesn't mean I have it in me to hold it personally against them. No point in bad blood.
Steemsports is a really cool idea. I hold no ill will towards the makers of it. I do however think it could use some tweaking in order to properly flourish along side the rest of STEEM.
Cheers man, Thank you for sharing your mind.
Unfortunately part of the growing pains, but I applaud your efforts to bring it to the forefront @klye.
We'll see plenty of bad fads come and go before STEEM is mainstream I think.
Just doing my part to weed out antisocial and ultimately counterproductive behaviors on the network.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
I saw one post by them, and never looked at it again - it makes me uneasy. It's definitely not ok.
Yep. I figured a number of people felt the same way I did.. Hence posting it.
Simply put the people running these "games" are kind of assholes.
I don't know who runs them or how many games like this they have, and I don't care to know. I have nothing against them. I'm a "to each their own" kinda guy, so if they wanna keep doing this, it's whatever. Not my place to stop them, but I definitely don't approve. No one knows these people in real life, yet they are voting on "who looks the best"?! Nah, I ain't about that. Inner beauty is true beauty, I don't care what's on the outside.
I did, however, follow them just so I can keep an eye on who is in the post (to make sure it's not me or someone else on here that may not see it), but I will never participate in their childish ways of making a nickel. It's fucked up.
You would think that after centuries of kings pitting their people against each other, the masses would eventually grow a conscience and realize that their satisfaction is causing pain for other people...But alas, we are in a new age of technology, and it still happens.
ME TOO
Me too! I absolutly don't like this competition! The person with bigger boobs or nice ass is more steemy!? Wtf is that?? I must stop seeing that on my feed, bye bye steemsports
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Just another arrow in the journalist's quiver
Not entirely sure I've heard this one before!
Not to seem like a dumbass (I mean, I am) but what does this saying mean?
A quiver is what archers keep their arrows in - the journalists will be gathering evidence about this practice; they will be looking at how people value themselves and other people; they will be looking at the use of fake ids, the use of manipulative voting constructs - all in the name of 'Social' media!
Imagine a 60 minutes episode ... your family and friends will look at everyone on steemit after that like they are the lowest of the low - it's just that nobody wants to accept the Truth yet and the journalists will have all this in its cross-hairs
Ah. Thank you very much for the clear explanation. Much appreciated.
I've never considered myself a journalist. I'm just some weirdo that showed up to draw MS-Paint dicks and troll people.. Somewhere along the line I got sidetracked in all of that and ended up a politician.. lol
I'm not condemning @steemsports nor @steemgames but I'd certainly like to see them take into considerations the ramifications of what they do.. It isn't pretty.. Nor legal for that matter. :/
"I'm just some weirdo that showed up to draw MS-Paint dicks and troll people." ha ha ha ha!
gave me my morning LOL! haha- Steemit- the site where even trolls cant help but positively contribute! haha
What he said was not what he meant. "Keep ur dicks in ur pants" is what he meant with his double entendre
let's bring @dickbutt back: https://steemit.com/dickbutt/@stellabelle/let-s-get-dickbutt-s-account-back-in-business-nsfw
that would be an excellent blog post! I think other blogging platforms could learn a lot! @bambam808
dickbutt?I have an idea @klye: I'd like to interview you for an article (maybe appearing on coindesk, Medium, etc.). The fact that you're a reformed Troll, is an exciting thing! With your permission, can I send you a list of interview questions? I think it could be an amazing angle for Steemit! Contact me in chat if your answer is yes! Were you drawing the infamous
Yeah. Go ahead and shoot me a kuestion list and I'll work on it today.
So much on the damn go between projects, packing and moving I'm not sure exactly when I'll be able to finish it but I'll certainly get it done as soon as I can.
the one thing I'd like you to clarify: how and who did you troll before coming to steemit? did you have certain people to fixate on? Were you a hardcore troll? anything specific will help me write the article. Trolls are a huge problem, and if steemit has successfully turned trolls into functioning humans, then that is a huge deal.
I'm a general all purpose asshat.
If there was a joke to be made at someone's expense I generally hoped on it. If there was chaos to be created I fed the flames of it. There are far worse troll examples out there than I was.. Generally was basically tame compared to some who flex racist, sexist, etc etc ideals on people.
I joined Steemit after it had been hacked.. Was doing the chaos routine and causing FUD.. Then @ned was all like "No need for this." ... I was un-trolled the CEO my first day here.. Now I'm fighting for the rights of users on our network..
Dafak. @KLYE you've gone soft.
Replying here cuz max nesting.
It wasn't so much a reprimand as a re-direction of energy..
I'm a damn good troll.. But seemingly a better witness.. I guess it all works out in the end.
ok, that helps a lot. Basically, it came down to someone with a high profile talking to you and reprimanding you right? Maybe that's the direction you needed to realize what your behavior was doing to people?
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
I trust that my last response was balanced enough.
I acknowledged all that you did.
All I said was that photos of 16 year old girls (a surprise to the girl in question) is an invitation for some pretty scathing comments.
There are checks and balances which should be observed and there could be a far better outcome with a better mechanic for steemgames!
Namaste!Hi @steemsports, I really appreciate that you have replied to me. I did read your measured and explanatory reply.
I quit participating in the @steemsports in part because of the Steemy Games pretty much for the reasons you have writen so well about here.
It's interesting to learn that at least some of the pictures have been used without permission of the person. One of the writers of the steemy games posts is very active in the Steemitabuse channel.
I know exactly whom you are talking about and I'll be having a word with him personally about this matter when I see him online.
The sports things front paging all the time.. Yeah. that's annoying. @steemsports has made a kings ransom with their project and while I cannot be upset with them for making money.. the way they've made it kind of sucks in my opinion. They certainly don't deserve the rep score they have.
This is merely the "Hey guys, stop being dicks" post. I hope they read and understand it.. and better yet stop.
If they don't it's going to get crappy.. I don't want to spend a day or 2 contacting whales personally to sway them against voting for these accounts but worse comes to worst that is exactly what I'll be doing.
I applaud you for taking the stand @klye
I saw their announcement post yesterday about the pay options they are setting up and good for them. They have done some strong test marking of the concept here on Steemit and kudos to them for doing so.
The more I think about though, the more I'm of the opinion that if they are going to run a pay system and still offer a 'free play' option, it needs to be on their own system and funded by their pay system not continuing to be funded by the reward pool.
BUT, I'm just a minnow and like opinions, they are many but carry little weight.
Not true.. Your opinion is just as valueable as anyone elses..
It's merely how you express your opinion to the masses here that counts.
Everyone has thoughts on most matters.. But sharing them in a way that all people can grasp and understand is something I try and strive for... My language may be colourful and my grammar just as bad.. But the message I'm trying to get across seems to have been heard atleast by some.
I agree with you 100%. We'll give steemsports time to fix their systems before launching a full on offensive at them. I don't think they're fundementally a bad group.. I just think they've very little consideration for others or the community in respects to vacuuming up rewards that would be far better in young steemters posts rather than sports betting / beauty pageants.
I think you just nailed the crux of the matter right there. Nicely put.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
I read it and I read @klye's revisions and a few other posts on the subject on both sides of the coin. As I said before. I participated in @steemsports until you guys decided that these steemy games thing was a good idea. There is a difference between having some fun with legitimate sports and just making sport of people. You guys crossed a line and my participation and support left with it.
HELL NO.
Thanks for writing this as it mirrors my exact feelings on the topic! It feels really low and shallow!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YUCK.
It's pretty damn low-life if you ask me to use peoples pictures without permission.. Then let alone to profit off of it..
Not even getting into the whole 16 year old Mrs.Steemit thing either.. That's a whole different breed of fucked up. :/
He said in our hangout that he was given these pictures by people interested in being part of the competition. Is this not true?
They got permission from Mrs.Steemit to use some pictures.. Although the ones they picked from her instagram included one where she was 16.. :/
"Please stick to sports guys for your drain on the daily reward pool... :/"
I wish I viewed it differently...
the fact is, seeing 4 steemsports on trending page is getting REALLY OLD.
The author wrote in his first post he had the OK from the persons involved.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
The comments from the users pictures used tells a different story..
Dont you think the girls who are HUGE bloggers on here would have made a post complaining about their likeness being used? Those are the pics she gave.. and she added a new one in the comments..
Looks like they actually went on to her twitter or instagram and grabbed some.. One of which was her super young.
Kyle - she posts her own pictures in the comment section at one point - do you think she would do that if there was no consent? What are you on about? Its not porn - its a hot or not contest and youve just proven you can find all kinds of pictures of these girls all over the place. While I share your opinion about the subject matter being "trashy" there is a huge leap between a trashy contest adults consent to - and whatever you are trying to turn this into.
The way I'd interpreted it is that they'd ripped old photos of her from somewhere (which they did, with permission I guess) and she not approving of them so she gave them other ones to use.
If you've read the revision I've cleared at least that part of this. They came fourth with evidence of permission and thus I adjusted the article to state what has been brought fourth, it's the only fair thing to do.
I may come off as a hot head too kuick to jump to conclusions.. But I do agree in fairness and as such any evidence brought fourth to support their defense will be accepted. I'm not out to make enemies.
I totally agree, They need to stick to game breakdowns and such. This is a horrible way to start the Steemit Community. We need to come together rather than have pointless "who is Steemier?" contests. Save that shit (excuse the language) for tinder/ fb/ insta and all the already destroyed (in my opinion) platforms.
Exactly as you put it @klye Steemit is for building each other UP! Growth as a community!
I actually like steemsports write ups and game highlights when they did them. Not a big sports guy myself but it was decent writing, the highlight pictures were good and the stats and whatnot were neat.
Less and less writing work and recapping seems to be done lately.. Seems once they secured whale autovotes they let their content quality slide.
I agree with you 100%. The breakdowns were not crazy technical breakdowns. They were great for the average person who isnt a huge sports fan. That demographic can get on, read those breakdowns and have a decent idea of what to expect in the matchup. Once Steemsports "made it" the content has been on a steady decline. With that said, they have now moved into this "steemygames" crap to try and boost up again... Rather than do harder work and post those matchup breakdowns, they are trying to "instagramify" Steemit with these hot or not contest games. Its a shame because I truly do enjoy when they release the match breakdowns. Someone is trying to take the easy way out, and its upsetting the core community.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
That's just inappropriate if the pictures have been used without permission of the person. I think that there are 2 ways to stop this:
Anyway, I respect your point of view and I also respect steemsports work. I enjoyed and learn something from this post, but in the end, people must decide how they will use the upvote button.
Well put:
I'll be getting in contact with the whales voting these posts up and asking them to re-consider in the future if this persists. While I'm all for everyone's freedom of voting I'm not for that vote being used to harm people.
every single person in the games gave permission and approval to use their pictures,
most even selected their pictures.
If it is like you say it is, that means you have some proofs. Can you show us @walden?
yes, we have all the chats and all the emails, for which person would you like to see proof?
You should show them to @klye because he is the one who made this post. I just read and comment on this post.
I've revised the original post to include the picture evidence of permission granted by Mrs.Steemit.. It's pretty obscure but it's "there"
this does not change the fact, that this is shallow as hell. Steemsports and Steemygames proved that they care only about profit, even by development first on steemsports.com support for free games, instead what they promised - real betting which will not drain reward pool
Agreed noisy. Even if they are getting permissions from the featured users it's still kind of juvenile. Not something I'd be proud to show my friends to get them into the platform.
On the flip side it could be viewed as advertising for the parties involved.. But I'm still not a big fan.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Here they are at it AGAIN! as we speak...
https://steemit.com/steemygames/@steemgames/the-steemy-games-halo-vs-denvermax
I shitflagged that post and linked this one in it..
I'll continue to shitflag their posts as well if they keep up with this childish bullshit.
"United we stand Steemians"!
Have a great day Thanks you the response. I really like where your head is at @klye! I gave you a follow, I would really appreciate if you could! I will be dropping a post today about a big idea I would like to present/ bring to the community! It is entertainment oriented, with budgeting, health and life tips. It is called the Steemit Kitchen. I would love your backing (not financially, just sharing) , and hopefully look forward to hearing any advice you may have! :)
yeah I flagged it also and noticed that @dantheman did too.
Thanks for this post! I've noticed those stupid steem games and also was wondering wtf was that. I saw 2 diferent beauty (hotest) contest and i wanted badly to flag it because this kind of posts don't make Steemit look credible. Now that i know photos didn't have permission....makes né feel even more angry!! Hope they stop this stupid games
every single person in the games gave permission and approval to use their pictures,
most even selected their pictures.
Ok, that is a good thing, but i will keep my opinion. This kind of contest are totally disgusting!!
It looks like crude permissions wer e given.. But yeah.. the whole thing stinks. :/
You make some great points, but why drop an fbomb on the very people you really need to listen? The less ego reaction we get the easier this will be.
So it is free market. lol .. I suggest to keep doing this: Put material in trending designed to wake people up to real stuff we need to deal with now (instead of spending too much time on this). But stay cool. No one gets to decide how much is too much (that would mean we are trying to rule and not trying to lead). We need to make our case and do our best to influence others to what we think is good and the chaos of the free market will decide.
So, you make some good points here. There is no shortcut and I would not seek to offend but rather seed to connect. At least you have the target audience all together at once. It does not make sense to me to try and forcefully bust this up. We need to come to a common understanding.
klye drops an f-bomb because he can't help it. It's not the ideal way to express feelings, but Steemit actually needs people stepping up, making their real, honest feelings known to others. We don't want a mass of sheeple in here. I would not have approached this issue in the same way, but I think it's useful to be honest....
klye got mad at me back in the day too....
Oh man.. That feels like forever ago Stellabelle.. I'm glad we forgave each other!
You're a valuable ally. Do not let anyone (even me!) tell you otherwise. :)
I agree .. I'm just suggesting it triggers ego and people talk at each other instead of with each other. This is a fantastic post though I'm just making a subtle point. It is the people who are enjoying steem sports that could benefit the most from the ideas here. Do you think they will be more willing to read it like it is? Hum, maybe I have it all wrong??
And I agree with you too. I would never tell people to fuck off, except someone trying to troll me, and even then I would not say it aloud...
I apologize if my message was lost in my foul language.. :/
I dig what you're saying here.
That stuck out to me the most.. I don't want to Rule over STEEM.. I do however want to lead us into prosperity.
... clears throat
Needless to say I have a pretty limited vocabulary and I often pepper in curse words to help get my point across.
While I realize this isn't a way a gentlemen should conduct his thoughts and speech at the same time I'm not entirely sure it would be as effective if I cleaned it up and chose to speak in a more clean and concise manner. It's almost as if I feel people expect this sort of shock language from me.. But perhaps tis all a delusion of my own.
Part of me realizes I'm in a very unique position on the STEEM network.. People listen to what I have to say. I should likely be more cognoscente in the future given my role here.
Thank you for your input James. As silly as it sounds your words do actively shape everything around you. Appreciate you calling me out on my f**k filled mouth. :)
Cheers.
A ha, that is the challenge then!
This crosses my mind too.. Your reply numbers prove your method was effective. But let's consider the quality of communication too. Also, I say keep going at it like you are .. try to be as effective as possible. I think those that learn to channel it exactally right explode in viral both short and long term.
I'm heavily invested time wise as well as project wise into the STEEM platform.
Very excited to be a part of this technology. Even if I am a small part.
With that being said anytime I call out something it's generally what I believe is in the best interest for STEEM long term.. But in the future I will work on coming off as a little less of a foul mouthed maverick and more like a professional. After all I am the #25 ranked witness on our network.. I really shouldn't be using such nasty language. Lead by example they say.
I appreciate the advice sir. This platform has certainly helped me grow as a person, and while I obviously still have a fair ways to go before I'm considered more than just a fbomb dropping whack-job, that time is dawning on the horizon.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
We should join forces and do A MEGA CARTOON GAME THING! We both have things to say, would be cool. Like the post and keep it up Klye! Check this out for me.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@sirlunchthehost/bitcoin-rise-to-power-part-4-special-episode-whats-wrong-with-steamysports-created-by-sirlunchthehost
Will check er shortly!
I was debating on starting an animated series some time in the new years for STEEM.. Will have to see what my work schedule looks like.
Your post a few days ago also helped inflame the situation, I would be careful how you try incite the community, it is not good for Steem.
Please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
I can see how my post inflamed the situation, but at the same time it got people who were against steemsports to openly share that there was nothing wrong with it. Rather it was a matter of opinion. I agree that my use of wording was a bit dangerous, but the overall goal and message was to let people know that it's their choice and you are playing by the rules. Which I followed up in a later Post/Video. In short I inflamed the situation to weed out the truths in peoples actions against you, although it was not the true intention behind it ( getting the conversation started talked about and over was) it still served some good in my opinion. I could be wrong and I am sorry if I offended you.
Cool no problem thanks for clearing that up, was great being on Beyond Bitcoin with you. Keep Steeming!
Likewise and sorry for the confusion!! Steem on and great job so far, if you ever feel like sponsoring a content creator let me know wink Have a good night waves
Thank you @klye for this post.
I just voted for you as my witness
PS. Can anyone help me figure out, who from TOP 19 supports steemsports, that I could unvote them?
I wish I knew, too.
some post yesterday.actually, @steemsports by accident resteemed
It still got 117 votes:
I guess, everyone from that list should be reconsider as a witness. For sure witness should not vote for something with closed eyes with a bot. All witnesses should be very careful what their vote support.
Good investigative work @noisy :)
Thank you Noisy!
I believe it could be looked into using steemd.com and seeing what names match the top 19 and the frequent @steemsports voters list.. Although that may be time intensive..!
Ahh, I hate when I do that...I hit the vote and had it set low from something else, but ah well I voted you up full power on your last two... not that my full power adds up to much yet Lol!....someday it shall. But this post needed the 100% for my agreement, so I just have to say it instead...I've never even clicked on a sports post because it's not my bag baby, but this, along with @beanz and some others I respect make it clear that it shouldn't be anyone's bag unless they turn over a new leaf. Maybe a New Year's resolution along the lines of "We shall not call for votes on the hotness of little more than tweens, we shall make posts relevant to our genre and show a bit more class."
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts
All votes and thoughts mean something! No matter how floppy they may be.
LOL. "Not my bag baby" Austin Powers would be proud. :D
@beanz is a saint in respects to speaking her mind as well. Mad respect for that woman for going against the popular vote.
That resolution is hilarious..! I certainly could use some more class heading forwards into next year.. that is damn sure.
LOL, nah, you keep being you ;)
I'm ok with the game as long as the players consent to it.Thanks for speaking you mind @klye
Right on Brian. Appreciate your thoughts on the matter. :)
Congratulations on creating a huge amount of engagement with your post! Clearly, you have hit a nerve here, though perhaps not with the most delicate language. Personally, I am willing to give SteemSports a chance and see what they can do. I'm not into it myself and it doesn't seem like the best use of space on Steemit, but I credit them for trying something new -- maybe it will catch on and maybe not. If it doesn't work, they'll try other things. Let the market decide. FYI, anyone who stimulates this much discussion surely deserves an upvote.
Cheers Donkeypong! I'm glad someone noticed the value in the topic and the comments that followed.
Yeah.. I'll work on my language from here on out.. It's a bit extreme. :/
Same boat as you my friend, Steemsports has tons of potential and I can't knock them on their success.
And while I do get tired of them trending 4/6 top spots at times that simply isn't what this post was about.
Thanks man.
IMO, there are three commons in SteemSports and SteemyGames. 1) Their high payouts are driven by a certain whale's repetitive upvotes, 2) Considerable(over 30%) proportion of payout goes to @steemsports and @steemygames, and 3) They can relatively easily made their posts than other authors writing articles, essays, and novels. In particular, @steemygames' posts are copy-and-paste of candidates' photos and @steemsports outsourced writers.
The combined result maybe leaking out the reward pool to the hosts with help of whales. Personally, this reminds me @masteryoda's case, which end up with @jesta's more efficient solution. I wish the whale don't make the same mistake again. Rather only protecting the service they are supporting, they need to make the service more efficient and attractive by benefitting users more (What the hell which gamble takes 30% as a fee?)
Edit: Just saw bernie's response, changed the plural to singular :)
Also, even the 70% that is distributed is distributed badly. Arguably even worse than the 30% thats kept.
If the goal is to attract good content (of any type), then reward money that is used to reward content is far better spent than reward money that is redistributed to people who do nothing but cast (an often automated) vote.
Some will argue that its a loss-lead. We bring them in by getting them to vote and then they buy steem or produce content or do something to grow the platfrom... but without any compelling evidence that that conversion is actually happening, im skeptical.
I totally agree. But I think the gaming posts can increase demands for STEEM so they cannot be 100% wrong. However, if we want to include them, they need to distribute rewards better (with competitive fee, less than 2% IMO)
Thank you for weighing in @clayop!
The house take on these games is ridiculous as you've mentioned above. I wholeheartedly agree. It's the whales autovoting that is fueling part of the issue here.. But this is just history repeating itself. Once the whale-types realize they are all voting on the same thing it becomes popular / autovoted.
I actually REALLY enjoyed the Steemsports posts when they came out. The writing was ok. The game overviews were sweet and all the stats and whatnot. They've gotten lazier in their presentation me thinks now that they know they have whale support.
<3 clayop.
Yes I like the writing part too, but it takes another 15% (in addition to 35%) and plus 15% for development/editor/etc...
sorry to ask it here, but the original post is no longer active :( I found your post about the steem api and I am currently developing an api wrapper for Java. I would like to use some of your descriptions to describe the methods with JavaDoc and make the life of the developers a bit easier - Is that ok for you or do I have to spend some time on describing them on my own :(?Hay @klye,
No worries man!
Go for it sir. Always happy to help a fellow developer.
Giving me a mention somewhere in the source code would be nice.
But if you don't I certainly won't hold it against you. :P
...or, or, or, they're a competitor that's currently stomping out the weaklings around them.
There's about a million other perspectives to take on it, too. It's a fun game, if you're bored.
Hi, please have a look at the official @steemgames @steemsports response: https://steemit.com/steemsports/@steemgames/proof-of-consent-of-participants-and-the-danger-click-bait-f-u-posts